Our 6th Overall Pick: Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan?

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by timbit

Not sure players picked up on waivers can be expected to address much of anything.

Bandaid to camouflage inherent team softness? Perhaps.

Combined with the GM not knowing a whole lot about hockey and being a big talker.

[Hair bleach and Vodka]

Just echoing the general sentiment of the thread thus far; I truly believe we will be getting a player with our 6th overall pick that will play a long time in our organization. I just hope we support and develop this prospect (whomever it ends up being) properly and without rushing him into the lineup.

I gotta say I'm scared to death of our Flames management feeling pressured to fill the name recognition gap of Iginla. Bear benefited from going back down to the AHL and although he looked so much more composed during his final stint.. I'm also nervous for him too.

It's going to be a very important draft, without question, but how we handle the 'aftermath' of said draft.. is of equal importance.

Good luck Flames brass, I sincerely hope you have the people in place to pull it off.

[Goodlad]

The only example Ricardodw has provided to prove Monahan is grittier than Lindholm is the higher PIM's. He completely ignores the large number of profiles/videos that show Monahan isn't any "harder to play against" than Lindholm, and many cite it going in the opposite direction.

[Ashasx]

Pronman's 6-10: http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1520

Lindholm at 6, Monahan at 7.

There is a notable tier separation between the sixth spot and the seventh spot, making this ranking a simple decision. The top six all project as NHL All Stars or better. I cannot make that claim in regards to anyone beyond this spot. Sean Monahan, ranked seventh, has some dynamic qualities, but he is not elite enough in one particular area to project as a star. He could be an average top-line center. That still makes him valuable, but his lack of multiple top-end skills holds him back from belonging in the same tier as Lindholm and above.

[nik-]

I hoped it would be closer than that, because I don't think Lindholm is there when we pick

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by nik-

I hoped it would be closer than that, because I don't think Lindholm is there when we pick

The only reason he was 6th in those rankings was the writer didn't factor Nichushkin's flight-risk into them. We just have to hope Carolina is willing to take a chance on the Russian.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by nik-

I hoped it would be closer than that, because I don't think Lindholm is there when we pick

If Lindholm isn't there at 6 it would be because of Nichushkin falling ya? I wonder how much research the flames are doing on the possibility of him playing here.

[Canada 02]

i probably ask this question every year. Who is Corey Pronman?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bucksmasher

If Lindholm isn't there at 6 it would be because of Nichushkin falling ya? I wonder how much research the flames are doing on the possibility of him playing here.

Either Nichushkin falling, Carolina going Canadian (because apparently, according to their fans, they have a Euro aversion) and taking Monahan or Carolina taking a D-Man.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

i probably ask this question every year. Who is Corey Pronman?

He is the guy that picked Landeskog at #13 in his analysis instead of #2 where the Av's picked him. link to his 2011 picks

In 2012 he had Griffin Rienhart slotted in at #15 and Ryan Murphy at #8..

link to his 2012 picks

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Pronman's 6-10: http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1520

Lindholm at 6, Monahan at 7.

On Linholm apparently he did not watch the highlight video's of Lindholm playing smash-mouth hockey.

As with most young players, he needs to continue to get stronger. That said, he is fairly firm on the puck, and he can muscle players off of it defensively as well. He is a tad undersized, and that is his one notable weakness

[nik-]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

On Linholm apparently he did not watch the highlight video's of Lindholm playing smash-mouth hockey.

Come on man, you don't have to deliberately misconstrue what people are saying about the kid because you're obsessed with PIMs.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I now hope Lindholm is 100% a Flame just so ricardodw would have to live with it.

[The Fonz]

I was curious what ######ow would have to say about Lindholm after that article. Did not disappoint.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by nik-

I hoped it would be closer than that, because I don't think Lindholm is there when we pick

From all accounts it is much closer than that.
Corey Pronman provides strong assessments of player skills but his evaluating tools are definitely in need of some fine tuning. He is a scout that is obsessed with puck possession/skills, and as a result his rankings are never very accurate.

For example

His 1st round 2011 Rankings
Sean Couturier at #2 - Drafted 8th
Ryan Murhpy at #6 - Drafted 12th
Nathan Beaulieu at #8 - Drafted 17th
Mark McNeill at #9 - Drafted 18th
Rocco Grimaldi at #10 - Drafted 33rd
Alexander Khohklachev at #11 - Drafted 40th
Gabriel Landeskog at #13 - Drafted 2nd overall
Jonas Brodin at #17 - Drafted 10th
Sven Baertschi at #18 - Drafted 13th
Nikita Kucherov at #19 - Drafted 58th
Michael St. Croix at #26 - Drafted 106th
Jamie Oleksiak at #27 - Drafted 14th
Mark Scheifele at #29 - Drafted 7th

And no, his 2012 rankings are not any better..
Mikhail Grigorenko at #2 - Drafted 12th
Filip Forsberg at #4 - Drafted 11th
Teuvo Teravainen at #5 - Drafted 18th
Ryan Murray at #8 - Drafted 2nd overall
Pontus Aberg at #9 - Drafted 37th
Sebastien Collberg at #11 - Drafted 33rd
Griffin Reinhart at #15 - Drafted 4th overall
Hampus Lindholm at #16 - Drafted 6th overall
Anton Slepyshev at #17 - Undrafted
Ludvig Bystrom at #20 - Drafted 43rd
Nikolai Prokhorkin at #22 - Drafted 121st
Slater Koekkoek at #23 - Drafted 10th overall
Derrick Pouliot at #24 - Drafted 8th overall

etc..

I would not put a ton of stock into his personal rankings.

[sun]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He is the guy that picked Landeskog at #13 in his analysis instead of #2 where the Av's picked him. link to his 2011 picks

In 2012 he had Griffin Rienhart slotted in at #15 and Ryan Murphy at #8..

link to his 2012 picks

Originally Posted by ricardodw

On Linholm apparently he did not watch the highlight video's of Lindholm playing smash-mouth hockey.

So do you agree with his opinions or don't you?

[Ashasx]

It should be noted that Pronman constantly rates players playing in European leagues higher than those playing in North America. At one time, he said MPS would be a perennial All-star. He had Filatov ranked #1 for 2 years or so.

I would prefer Lindholm, but I really don't think the difference between them is as great as he's making it out to be.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I would not put a ton of stock into his personal rankings.

Why not? He's evaluating player skill not predicting draft selection. I'd put as much stock into his personal rankings as I would any other publications rankings.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

At one time, he said MPS would be a perennial All-star. He had Filatov ranked #1 for 2 years or so.

Those weren't uncommon beliefs at the time. IIRC they were actually pretty widespread beliefs.

[Ashasx]

Craig Button did an AMA on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comme...sion_with_tsn/

Out of Monahan, Lindholm, and Shinkaruk.. who has the most upside that fits the Flames' centreman needs best?

IMO, it is Sean Monahan. He is an excellent center and I think to be successful you need centers who can carry heavy work loads in many areas. Sean is skilled and will create and generate offence. He has attention to detail and is a very good two-way player. He is smart & can adapt to the various challenges the game presents and is very versatile with respect to being able to play different positions and play them well. I think Sean has the potential to be a number 1 center and while there may not be a lot of 'flash' to his game, there is loads and loads of substance to his game and he helps teams win.

I guess we're taking Monahan.

[nik-]

yeah ... order the Monahan jerseys