Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

There could be a scenario where somebody we have ranked top 10 is available at #15. That's around when we could package to move up IMO.

Yeah, I could see that happening. Say the Flames have a guy like Max Domi kicking around their top 10... if he slips I could see them packaging up the other two firsts to make a grab at him.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by nik-

I agree with what you're saying completely except for one minor part. A Russian staying in the KHL isn't a drama queen choice, it's the rational one. Coming and trying to make it in the NHL and take a big paycut is the emotional choice.

Some Russians have the drive to prove themselves in the best league in the world and some don't, and there's really no way for us to know which type Nichushkin is yet. If we were to draft him at #6, we'd first need to hear all the right things in pre-draft discussions with him. The problem is that, if it's clear that his heart is set on playing in the NHL, he likely won't still be on the board at #6 anyway. If his intentions are clear and he somehow falls to us, though, I'd love to have him.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Makarov

My perfect world:

CGY 1st round pick + PIT 1st round pick for NSH 1st round pick.

Draft Barkov.

Curtis Glencross (who might actually waive for EDM) + STL 1st round pick for EDM 1st round pick + EDM 2nd round pick.

Draft Nurse.

One can dream...

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by nik-

I agree with what you're saying completely except for one minor part. A Russian staying in the KHL isn't a drama queen choice, it's the rational one. Coming and trying to make it in the NHL and take a big paycut is the emotional choice.

Right, that's fair. I was more thinking of a Radulov-like scenario. The Flames simply do not have the wiggle room to gamble on Nichushkin becoming a Malkin instead of a Radulov. The high reward is very tempting but the risk isn't worth it considering the other players available.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Makarov

My logic was that a trade to Edmonton would allow Glencross to stay close to his ranch. I didn't consider that Glencross might have hurt feelings still from not being re-signed. That seems like a long time ago but I suppose its possible that those hurt feelings linger?

From Edmonton's perspective, Glencross would be an immediate injection of grit and scoring in their top six. Those are both needs for them. Nurse will be years away from contributing. Although, I take the point that they really need help on defense more than anything.

In any event, my proposal was more of a utopian vision (wherein Edmonton of course continues to suck and not address their real problems) than anything else.

Whatever. Screw you guys.

If there is anyone on the Flames, who the Oilers should be targeting, it's Giordano, even though they already have 6 of them.

[albertGQ]

Not much talk about our third rounder. Anyone think drafting a big defenseman would be a good idea if we pick 3 forwards with our 3 first rounders?

What about Ben Betker or Jard Hauf? Both 6-5 and over 200 lbs?

Future Zdeno Chara? One can only dream but the big Z was also a 3rd rounder

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Not much talk about our third rounder. Anyone think drafting a big defenseman would be a good idea if we pick 3 forwards with our 3 first rounders?

What about Ben Betker or Jard Hauf? Both 6-5 and over 200 lbs?

Future Zdeno Chara? One can only dream but the big Z was also a 3rd rounder

It might not hurt to draft them regardless of how the first round goes. However, if we specifically want to find a guy that size, it would make sense to target Morin who has the same size (actually two inches taller) and is ranked two rounds earlier.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Not much talk about our third rounder. Anyone think drafting a big defenseman would be a good idea if we pick 3 forwards with our 3 first rounders?

What about Ben Betker or Jard Hauf? Both 6-5 and over 200 lbs?

Future Zdeno Chara? One can only dream but the big Z was also a 3rd rounder

I like Adam Tambellini if we can get him in the third. Plays out in Surrey (going to the RBC cup).

6'2 170 so there is plenty of room for him to grow while he plays in the NCAA.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

What about Ben Betker

Maybe him or Jonathon-Ismael Diaby, I kind of want them to try and grab Morin (6'7, two way d-man from the Q) with one of their later 1st rounders. If they do that and they're going to take another forward I wouldn't mind another hail mary pass on a small forward going the colliegent route (ala Gaudreau) in Cammarata.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Not much talk about our third rounder. Anyone think drafting a big defenseman would be a good idea if we pick 3 forwards with our 3 first rounders?

What about Ben Betker or Jard Hauf? Both 6-5 and over 200 lbs?

Future Zdeno Chara? One can only dream but the big Z was also a 3rd rounder

More likely to get an elite huge defenceman in the first round. Nurse, Zadorov and Morin all look pretty appealing. Hoping one of them drops but its unlikely.

[mdubz]

Are we opposed to using our first pick on Nurse? Our defense prospect pool may be weaker than our forward pool.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Are we opposed to using our first pick on Nurse? Our defense prospect pool may be weaker than our forward pool.

Our center prospect pool has to be the worst in the NHL. Can't see the flames passing up a chance on a 1st line center. Granted our D pool is not great, but its still way better than our center pool.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

BPA all the way, but it does seem like there could be some good D (maybe not huge)prospects near the end of the first round/early second. Will be very interesting to see where Morin, Theodore, Bowey Heatherington from the U18's go.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Our center prospect pool has to be the worst in the NHL. Can't see the flames passing up a chance on a 1st line center. Granted our D pool is not great, but its still way better than our center pool.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't teams with worst centre prospect depth. IMO we're actually deepest in centres and goalies at the moment.

Jankowski, Reinhart, Granlund, Arnold, Byron, DeBlouw

A few guys who could be top 6 centres, a few guys who could be checking centres. Several teams must be worse off at centre.

I don't see the D pool as being way better.

Wotherspoon, Sieloff, Culkin, Kulak, Breen, Ramage, Cundari, Lamb, Martin

Most of those guys look like 4-7 defensemen at best IMO. No potential top pairing guys at all.

Add Backlund to our centre group and we'd actually be looking very good if Jankowski evolves into a top line centre.

Add Brodie to our defensive group and we clearly still lack a couple top 3 defensemen.

I see defense as the bigger weakness but I think we can grab a great defenseman with our 2nd pick. Potential #1 centres don't usually fall outside the top 5-10 in most years so our best chance of getting one could be this year.

I'd love to trade up to grab MacKinnon/Barkov or stay where we are and grab Lindholm/Monahan. Then trade up or stay with the STL pick and grab a defenseman there, hopefully one with a lot of size.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'd be surprised if there wasn't teams with worst centre prospect depth. IMO we're actually deepest in centres and goalies at the moment.

Jankowski, Reinhart, Granlund, Arnold, Byron, DeBlouw

A few guys who could be top 6 centres, a few guys who could be checking centres. Several teams must be worse off at centre.

I don't see the D pool as being way better.

Wotherspoon, Sieloff, Culkin, Kulak, Breen, Ramage, Cundari, Lamb, Martin

Most of those guys look like 4-7 defensemen at best IMO. No potential top pairing guys at all.

Add Backlund to our centre group and we'd actually be looking very good if Jankowski evolves into a top line centre.

Add Brodie to our defensive group and we clearly still lack a couple top 3 defensemen.

I see defense as the bigger weakness but I think we can grab a great defenseman with our 2nd pick. Potential #1 centres don't usually fall outside the top 5-10 in most years so our best chance of getting one could be this year.

I'd love to trade up to grab MacKinnon/Barkov or stay where we are and grab Lindholm/Monahan. Then trade up or stay with the STL pick and grab a defenseman there, hopefully one with a lot of size.

Sorry but to me that center list is terrible. Jankowski is still on that boom or bust list for me. Its going to take at least another year to know what we have in him. I like Reinhart and think he will be a great 3rd line center with potential for 2nd line. The rest are 3rd and 4th line centers. I don't know for fact, but i have to guess every team in the NHL has 3rd and 4th line centers in the pipeline. Byron has his work cut out for him to even get 100 games as a winger.

I agree we have a young Backlund, but he still needs to take the next step to be an every team NHL 2nd line center. As of now he is a 2nd line center on a bad team but would not be a 2nd line center on a good team.

Wotherspoon, Sieloff, Culkin, Kulak all have potential as top 4 d-men. Maybe "way better" was not the correct wording, but i see a deeper d-pool over center.

Don't get me wrong we need both, but the first pick should go for one of Barkov, Lindholm or Monahan. Top 6 centeres are hard to trade for and barely become available in the UFA market. For some reason top d men make it to the UFA market.

[Calgary4LIfe]

RW is severely lacking in the Flames' prospect pool. LW'ers and Goalies seem to have some depth, Defence looks 'deep', but without any real blue-chip prospects, and Center is 'ok', though definitely not strong.

Flames don't even have many decent RW'ers on the team right now - biggest weakness by far in the prospect pool.

Nichushkin is listed as a LW, C and I have seen him as a RW'er. I actually wouldn't mind a gamble on this kid. Rumor has it that he has an NHL out-clause after his next year in the KHL. Not sure if that is true or not. I am starting to hope the Flames draft him. Great size, strength and speed, and I am starting to think he is less and less of a gamble. Who knows, he could end up being a much better center than Barkov, right? NHL is all about speed and skill now - couple that with really good size, and it starts to become tough to pass over him - 'gamble' and all.

I would probably think the Flames will draft a center, and then look for 2 RW'ers early (if they are anywhere in the ballpark of BPA of course - I don't they would, nor should they, select further down the list to shore-up a weakness). The defence core is still relatively young (even without including Brodie - still a few good years out of most of their top 4 defencemen).

With that being said, I don't really care what position the Flames end up picking in - as long as they select the BPA. They still have vets they can trade for additional picks next year (or even for this draft - but the price of picks seems to go higher closer to the draft), or can just trade some veterans for stop-gaps (with upside) as a worst-case scenario.

I do think some a team or two in the top 4 or 5 just might end up trading down a bit, and it will be really interesting to see how how much it costs a team to move up 'x' number of spots. Even moving from 5th to 4th might be pretty steep when talking about "4 elite prospects", vs the next '3 or 4 excellent prospects'.

That, to me, is makes Nichushkin a bit more attractive. You may just end up getting one of the best 3 forwards in the draft (or even THE best), without necessarily having to trade away very valuable assets moving up to get one.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

RW is severely lacking in the Flames' prospect pool. LW'ers and Goalies seem to have some depth, Defence looks 'deep', but without any real blue-chip prospects, and Center is 'ok', though definitely not strong.

Flames don't even have many decent RW'ers on the team right now - biggest weakness by far in the prospect pool.

Nichushkin is listed as a LW, C and I have seen him as a RW'er. I actually wouldn't mind a gamble on this kid. Rumor has it that he has an NHL out-clause after his next year in the KHL. Not sure if that is true or not. I am starting to hope the Flames draft him. Great size, strength and speed, and I am starting to think he is less and less of a gamble. Who knows, he could end up being a much better center than Barkov, right? NHL is all about speed and skill now - couple that with really good size, and it starts to become tough to pass over him - 'gamble' and all.

I would probably think the Flames will draft a center, and then look for 2 RW'ers early (if they are anywhere in the ballpark of BPA of course - I don't they would, nor should they, select further down the list to shore-up a weakness). The defence core is still relatively young (even without including Brodie - still a few good years out of most of their top 4 defencemen).

With that being said, I don't really care what position the Flames end up picking in - as long as they select the BPA. They still have vets they can trade for additional picks next year (or even for this draft - but the price of picks seems to go higher closer to the draft), or can just trade some veterans for stop-gaps (with upside) as a worst-case scenario.

I do think some a team or two in the top 4 or 5 just might end up trading down a bit, and it will be really interesting to see how how much it costs a team to move up 'x' number of spots. Even moving from 5th to 4th might be pretty steep when talking about "4 elite prospects", vs the next '3 or 4 excellent prospects'.

That, to me, is makes Nichushkin a bit more attractive. You may just end up getting one of the best 3 forwards in the draft (or even THE best), without necessarily having to trade away very valuable assets moving up to get one.

Your post also makes a strong argument for taking Lindholm as well. Being weak on the RW it would not hurt taking the right handed shot of Lindholm either. Either way Nichushkin makes the top 8 of the draft a total crap shoot. Even better for any team if Nichushkin ends up being a center as he develops. As with many other players, they seem to play on the wing until they're moved to C.

[3 Justin 3]

I just had an interesting thought, a couple years ago when we picked Baertschi at 13th, Carolina was just before us and picked Murphy (who was ahead of Baertschi on the Flames list). Carolina did us a huge favour in choosing Murphy as he isn't looking too good these days and we have Baertschi who is looking really good. Hell, even if Murphy turns out to be a good player, I'm much much happier with Sven.

That brings me to this year. Carolina is right before us again and I can't help but wonder if they will "help" us out again by giving us the better the player (not intentionally obviously). Do they take Nichushkin, Nurse leaving us with Barkov/Lindholm.

I can only hope history repeats itself.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

I just had an interesting thought, a couple years ago when we picked Baertschi at 13th, Carolina was just before us and picked Murphy (who was ahead of Baertschi on the Flames list). Carolina did us a huge favour in choosing Murphy as he isn't looking too good these days and we have Baertschi who is looking really good. Hell, even if Murphy turns out to be a good player, I'm much much happier with Sven.

That brings me to this year. Carolina is right before us again and I can't help but wonder if they will "help" us out again by giving us the better the player (not intentionally obviously). Do they take Nichushkin, Nurse leaving us with Barkov/Lindholm.

I can only hope history repeats itself.

I thinks there's zero chance they take a center,Staal x2,Tlusty make them pretty set, Nurse would be the best fit there.

[Ashasx]

my bad