WQF (3) Vancouver Canucks vs (6) San Jose Sharks (Sharks win 4-0!!!!).

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not sure that you will be able to call him a top 2 center for much longer, that's why I would move him out, right now in stock market terms he's probably at the top of the value list.

He's missed some pretty significant injury time, he's inconsistent.

Also he's part of a core that is showing that its time for a significant change if they go out in the next game. The Canucks hit their highest point two years ago and have seen a significant slide in the regular season and playoffs since then.

Their success has been disguised by an incredibly weak division.

He is only 28 and this is his first year missing time. Last year he missed 5 games. The 3 years before that he played all 82 games.

He had a bad shoulder injury and it is obvious he came back to early. He probably should have sat out most of, if not the entire year.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Unfortunately, Alain Vigneault is going to probably lose his job because Hansen could not hit an empty net, and Schneider lets in two routine shots.

I hate the Canucks, but I can't help but feel bad for Vigneault. Good guy.

Yep, good guy, but it might be in the best interest for both sides to part. AV has been there a long time and will land on his feet in relative short order. The Canucks need a new look as it's clear this one peaked a couple years ago and isn't going in the right direction with the same coach.

I can't think of a coach that was with one team for a long time(let's say 5 plus years) before finally winning the Cup. I could be wrong, but in recent memory, I don't belive that I am.

[the_only_turek_fan]

I have a good friend who is a Canucks fan and he says the team has not been the same since they lost Christian Ehrhoff.

Malhotra was another big loss. Sometimes guys like this are not appreciated until they are gone. Look at the Colorado Avalanche. Something was missing after they traded Stephane Yelle.

I still think this is a good team (bias aside). IF Hansen did hit the EN, the narrative would be totally different right now.

They need to sort out the goalie situation though. This can't drag on another summer.

Kesler needs a full off season to get better. His demise is a bit premature.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I have a good friend who is a Canucks fan and he says the team has not been the same since they lost Christian Ehrhoff.

Malhotra was another big loss. Sometimes guys like this are not appreciated until they are gone. Look at the Colorado Avalanche. Something was missing after they traded Stephane Yelle.

I still think this is a good team (bias aside). IF Hansen did hit the EN, the narrative would be totally different right now.

They need to sort out the goalie situation though. This can't drag on another summer.

Kesler needs a full off season to get better. His demise is a bit premature.

I live in Vancouver and unfortunately see far more Canucks games than I'd like, and I have to agree with the Erhoff loss. He really was the central cog in their defence.

A major issue is that the Sedins and Kelser just aren't playing as well as they were 2 years ago. Secondary scoring like Samuelsson, Malhotra, Torres, etc.. just isn't there this year. So I'm not sure that giving Erhoff that massive contract he was looking for would have been the solution. If anything, Vancouver has put themselves in the Flames trap with too many "core" players signed long term. Already, the Burrows, Higgins, and Edler contracts are looking like potential mistakes.

Burrows, especially, is going to backfire. He's 32 now and looks to be on the decline (and honestly wasnt that great to begin with). Signing him for 4 more years at 4.5 was a big mistake.

The simple fact of the matter is that they expected their core to play at a top level for longer than they did. They look very much like Calgary did 2-3 years ago. Aging core, little prospects, and obviously not an elite team. It'll be interesting to see what they do here. They have a few more tradeable assets than Calgary did. Most notably Mr.Schneider.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by blankall

I live in Vancouver and unfortunately see far more Canucks games than I'd like, and I have to agree with the Erhoff loss. He really was the central cog in their defence.

A major issue is that the Sedins and Kelser just aren't playing as well as they were 2 years ago. Secondary scoring like Samuelsson, Malhotra, Torres, etc.. just isn't there this year. So I'm not sure that giving Erhoff that massive contract he was looking for would have been the solution. If anything, Vancouver has put themselves in the Flames trap with too many "core" players signed long term. Already, the Burrows, Higgins, and Edler contracts are looking like potential mistakes.

Burrows, especially, is going to backfire. He's 32 now and looks to be on the decline (and honestly wasnt that great to begin with). Signing him for 4 more years at 4.5 was a big mistake.

The simple fact of the matter is that they expected their core to play at a top level for longer than they did. They look very much like Calgary did 2-3 years ago. Aging core, little prospects, and obviously not an elite team. It'll be interesting to see what they do here. They have a few more tradeable assets than Calgary did. Most notably Mr.Schneider.

While I agree with your assessment, there is one thing that a lot of folks seem to forget sometimes.

This is a very competitive league now, and any team can win any series.

The Vancouver Canucks are a good team. No one here can question that, however the Blues, Blackhawks, Kings, and Sharks are as good if not a bit better and only one team can come out of this conference.

It's inevitable. Someone has to lose.

[the_only_turek_fan]

And look no further than the team they are playing in San Jose.

San Jose has tinkered their line up and has looked even better than they did 2-3 years ago.

Although the emergence of Logan Couture has helped. I think Schneider was/is Vancouver's Couture but for some reason not had as good of a year as he would like.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Schnieder seems to have what Luongo has, which is the ability to have a real stinker of a game at the most inopportune moments. We have all seen Schneider when he is playing well he is a top goalie in the NHL, he has excellent fundamentals. But every now and then he just pulls out a stinker, much like Lou.

I think the Nucks will take the next two games.

I also think AV will get fired if they do lose this first round which is a shame because he is an excellent coach. I would gladly accept him taking over the reigns from Hartley.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Schnieder seems to have what Luongo has, which is the ability to have a real stinker of a game at the most inopportune moments. We have all seen Schneider when he is playing well he is a top goalie in the NHL, he has excellent fundamentals. But every now and then he just pulls out a stinker, much like Lou.

I think the Nucks will take the next two games.

I also think AV will get fired if they do lose this first round which is a shame because he is an excellent coach. I would gladly accept him taking over the reigns from Hartley.

It's not just the goalies, it's the team. Every time the goalie has a bad night, the team just stops playing in front of them. Schneider lets in a bad goal...the team stops playing defence and starts taking dumb penalties to turn a bad night into a disaster.

[Resolute 14]

Not to mention that the Canucks have only 15 goals in their last 12 playoff games. That entire team has simply vanished in the clutch since the midway part of the Bruins series.

[Galakanokis]

When the Canucks went to the finals almost to a man everyone on the roster had career years, a lot of people/fans thought it was a trend upwards but that has proven to be false. Stats were skewed by a ridiculous number of penalties and a very very good power play. They are not getting the benefit of all the flops anymore and the lose of Erhoff has been huge to their power play.

A team will never win with 6 mediocre defensemen signed to $4 and $5 million contracts. Not enough breathing room there with no real stud to eat tough minutes. Edler is decent but far from a stud. Haven't even noticed him these playoffs and not in a good way.

They truly lack toughness and grit. A buddy said it last night that what they have is manufactured toughness. The act big at certain times and run around and make stupid hits. But when it comes to truly battling for position or puck possession they get knocked down or flop. You need to battle for every inch on the ice and the Canucks are not doing that.

At times it feels like the Sharks are just toying with them. They almost laugh at them when the Canucks act all tough after the whistle and when the refs are around. The Sedin trip near the end of the game after the whistle is prime example. He clipped Couture's (I think it was him) foot right at the blue line hoping Couture would get up and do something but he just skated away leaving Sedin sulking. You don't win with that kind of leadership.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Schnieder seems to have what Luongo has, which is the ability to have a real stinker of a game at the most inopportune moments. We have all seen Schneider when he is playing well he is a top goalie in the NHL, he has excellent fundamentals. But every now and then he just pulls out a stinker, much like Lou.

Agree. I´ve always been a fan of Niemi (since he played back in Finland) because he has the ability to raise his game when it matters. He has never been the flashiest goaltender and never really gotten the respect (even during the cup run in Chicago) but he truly is the opposite compared Lou or Schneider. A real fighter, never gives up and clutch player when needed. I´d take a goalie like Niemi anyday over these guys who look great during regular season in a no-pressure situation but have real stinkers in playoffs.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Schnieder seems to have what Luongo has, which is the ability to have a real stinker of a game at the most inopportune moments. We have all seen Schneider when he is playing well he is a top goalie in the NHL, he has excellent fundamentals. But every now and then he just pulls out a stinker, much like Lou.

I think the Nucks will take the next two games.

I also think AV will get fired if they do lose this first round which is a shame because he is an excellent coach. I would gladly accept him taking over the reigns from Hartley.

they might win one, but I don't know if I see it, San Jose is a team with a ton of confidence right now, the Canucks look like old yeller cringing in the corner of the farm yard begging for the bullet.

[bubbsy]

meh, the sedins/kesler have been more or less missing in the playoffs since the conference finals 2 years back.

Unless that changes, doesn't matter if hansen hit the empty net or not, they weren't going to make it all that far.

The sedins look like the did 7+ years ago, where even if they had possession down low, they were just cycling to no benefit.

the canucks were AWESOME when they were able to transition from D to offense with one single pass to break out. They didn't waste time with the d to d crap or turnovers, as soon as the dman regained puck poessesion in the dzone, they were head up bulleting a pass up ice. This is completely missing from their game. I have only really watched them in hte playoffs this season, so not sure if this is a pattern that exists even during the season.

Maybe losing guys like salo/erhoff and replacing with garrison, alberts, ballard, etc, has hindered this. the scoring depth sure isn't there either upfront.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's not just the goalies, it's the team. Every time the goalie has a bad night, the team just stops playing in front of them. Schneider lets in a bad goal...the team stops playing defence and starts taking dumb penalties to turn a bad night into a disaster.

Totally. They're a mentally weak team now, where in the past, especially during their cup run, they certainly played with a lot more confidence.

The Sedins also getting older and Daniel not really the same since getting elbowed by Duncan Keith makes matters worse for the Canucks.

[GreenLantern]

Fata? Don't care. I am even a whole game late oMFmGmmmf ermegerd!!

[puckluck2]

Canucks are 0-3.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

And look no further than the team they are playing in San Jose.

San Jose has tinkered their line up and has looked even better than they did 2-3 years ago.

Although the emergence of Logan Couture has helped. I think Schneider was/is Vancouver's Couture but for some reason not had as good of a year as he would like.

I think Hodgson could have been their Couture, but they decided to move him for another unproven guy in Kassian thinking he would help their team. The Canucks have some similarities to the Sharks except that when San Jose had two goalies who looked like #1 guys, they traded Toskala for good value while he had it, and used that to position themselves to draft Couture who has emerged with Pavelski to be the guys carrying the load while Marleau and Thornton have aged out past their peak years.

I think since the cup loss to the Bruins that Mike Gillis has not managed the team well at all. He didn't make an all in move to go for it, and he was a bit too passive dealing with the goaltending situation. He got greedy trying to build up Schneiders trade value, and in the mean time devalued Luongo, and now Schneiders is not what it would have been 12-23 months ago.

[Vinny01]

Vancouver is in a comparable situation to Calgary a couple years ago simply in terms of having an aging roster, little to no prospects, lots of NMC's and tough to trade contracts, with no cap flexibility.

The Sedins are impossible to move because you would have to find a team that is willing to take both. On top of that Canucks will want 2 1st round picks, 2 good prospects and a couple of decent roster players which is typical for an elite first line talent. How many teams have enough assets to acquire both? I could see the Rangers if Vancouver took back Richards but sure NY will not want to send Miller, Krieder, 1st, Del Zotto as well.

Luongo is unmovable unless it is purely a cap dump scenario. Even then teams want Vancouver to eat salary just to get a 2nd round pick and a backup goalie in return.

Kesler is a guy they need to keep he is the heart of that team but he is 28 going on 35 and has already peaked. I see him being a solid 50-60pt center who plays to tugh minutes but he will never again be a 40 goal 75pt guy.

The defense has movable players in Edler, Bieksa, Hamhuis but Ballard and Garrison would be tough to trade. Also Vancouver would ask for way too much in return for the other 3.

Schneider is very movable but you can't really trade him and keep Lu after the circus that has gone on there recently

Vancouver is going to change their coach try to dump Ballard, Booth, and Luongo to shake things up. If they can dump those bad contracts they will play in the free agent market (Clowe, Clarkson, maybe try for Iggy) but this team doesn't havea Couture to keep them relevant (they did have Hodgson who I think could be like their Couture but they moved him for goon-boy Kassian)

[Knut]

This is the point when their Fortunes turned. They have never been the same team since this incident. Other teams figured out they lacked testicular-fortitude and refs figured out that they dive all the time.

[morgin]

As a self loathing Canucks fan, this really has to be for the best. I don't know if I agree with you guys praising AV either - the culture of the team is coming from somewhere, and AV's "gamesmanship" of being a whiny ####### in the media kind of makes me think he must help foster that attitude in the dressing room. 50% of the team has turned over, and you still have players buying into this idea that trying to draw penalties and playing soft as a strategy is worthwhile. I might be in the small subset of fans who are fans of the club but hate the current makeup of the team, but I hope our number are growing. It will be interesting to see what kind of team that AV coaches next will look like - I think there is a strong case that he was a big part of the problem if you have another team developing this victim mentality.

Tough position to be in. Sedins have had the benefit of the doubt for a long time, but I think the writing is on the wall in terms of their dismal history as playoff no-shows. It's too much of an easy answer to look back and say "oh but they made game 7" because truthfully they should have been knocked out by the Blackhawks that year anyway.

It would really be interesting to see behind the scenes with a lot of organizations, and this one in particular to figure out where the attitude and unlikeable style comes from. There will be a lot of hindsight 20/20 moments coming over this summer I think, but when you look at the last few years as a whole and see how they signed two stupid goalie contracts (Schneiders only being stupid because of luongo being a long term plan with knowledge at the owner level of cba issues coming down the pipe), questionably handled grabner and hodgson and then turned them into ballard and kassian, mishandled media and somehow became really disliked by people who really wouldnt otherwise have a reason to dislike them, mishandled the riot (the Canucks should have had more of a long-term condemming response, the fact they tried to stay out of it is kind of gross)... it all really starts to stink, which is something I guess everyone else has already picked up on. Makes me miss the days of Orca Bay ownership and Naslund as C, that's for sure.