End of the road for Shanahan?

[Kjesse]

Shanahan is safe in his position.

I don't agree with the call, especially the emphasis of a head-shot which I can't see from the angles he presented in his video.

The real issue here is the NHL is moving away from classic hockey strategy. The defence's job is to prevent the opposing forward from advancing out of their zone. Stepping into a forward taking a pass is well known move, to the point that the term "suicide pass" is known by everyone who plays the game.

If you take the ability of the defender to step into a forward in that circumstance, you're going to see a much different game where forwards have an easier time breaking out of their own zone. It will enhance goal scoring and the movement of the game back and forth across zones.

For a real-life example of this in practice, watch basketball.

[Derek Sutton]

You have to think the vast majority of players would like to see these hit taken out of the game as well, so many times it seems as though it is the 5-6 Dman or 4th liner at the centre of the incident.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Kaine

Good rebuttal. We have many, many angles showing that the point of contact was nowhere near the head, he has no obvious intent to injuring considering he didn't leave his skates, didn't bring up his elbow, didn't charge a player from behind. Care to elaborate on your point of view or is "nope" the final answer?

The chin is part of the head. The head snapped back first when he got hit. I'm not saying it was an intent to injure, or even intentional. But it was a hit to the head. Hits to the head aren't OK, period. They don't have to be hits from behind, skates leaving the ice, elbows, helmets, knee drops, chair shots, sledgehammers, crowbars, or anything else. IDGAF if it's a shoulder that makes contact. No hits to the head. Period.

This is a league that calls a penalty every time a puck is accidentally shot into the stands, or a stick gets broken by a slash from another stick. I don't think a zero tolerance policy on hits to the head is a bad idea in comparison.

[Bootsy]

I doubt this is the end of the road for Shanahan but it will be the end of the road for body contact in hockey if they decide to punish these type of clean hits with 5 minute majors and suspensions.
After body checking is successfully taken out of the game , one can only hope they eliminate fighting and slap shots next.....combine that with the influx of diving around the league and the NHL will have achieved their seemingly goal of becoming soccer on ice.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

The chin is part of the head. The head snapped back first when he got hit. I'm not saying it was an intent to injure, or even intentional. But it was a hit to the head. Hits to the head aren't OK, period. They don't have to be hits from behind, skates leaving the ice, elbows, helmets, knee drops, chair shots, sledgehammers, crowbars, or anything else. IDGAF if it's a shoulder that makes contact. No hits to the head. Period.

This is a league that calls a penalty every time a puck is accidentally shot into the stands, or a stick gets broken by a slash from another stick. I don't think a zero tolerance policy on hits to the head is a bad idea in comparison.

His head snapped back not because it was hit but because his body took a very hard impact hit.

[browna]

Even though its been a short term, you have to wonder how long guys want to be in this role, especially in how it's changed.

There is very little upside to this position, you have players, GMs, media, coaches and fans blasting you from one, or many sides when making each and every ruling; someone's always upset at you no matter what.

Burke did it way back when prior to 1998, then of course Campbell the next 13 years. Those guys were directors of NHL Hockey Operations, not simply just a disciplinarian.

Those guys had somewhat of a shield, the game was different by a long shot, the video evidence wasn't always available, let alone from 4 different angles and the internet to whip up all sorts of instant reaction, and those guys didn't have to produce videos of their interpretation and ruling, which, while good, opens them up to even more criticism then his predecessors.

It's certainly a good way to make contacts around the league, and certainly building his equity within the league and NHL circles for being the one under the microscope and the lighting rod for the ugly side of the game.

So I wonder what the next step would be for Shahahan if he did have enough of this?

Further up the league offices like Campbell? He is the VP of Hockey and Business Development since 2009, its only been a short time at the designated "suspension" guy, not 13 years as Campbell put in, and its not a desirable job that's going to be that easy to fill, so they may not be happy if he wants to drop it?

Or, parlay this experience and string of contacts he made in this position the last 4 years (he also was part of the CBA negotiations for the league) to go onto a team in some sort of semi-management capacity if he's interested in that?

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Horrible pass from Diaz, he should be suspended for a few games for attempted murder.

No kidding. This was the definition of a suicide pass. McLean (Sen's coach) is absolutely right when he said that the middle of the ice is a dangerous area and to keep your head up.

It didn't look like he targeted the head at all either, but once again because someone is taller than another player they destroy him and he gets hurt. Like McLean said, keep your head up and this was Diaz's fault for passing Eller the puck. If I was Eller I'd be pissed off at Diaz, not Gryba.

I laugh at the Montreal team when they say "that wasn't a suicide pass".

Yes it was you fools. Though if I was in their position I would probably say the same, can't be bad mouthing your own team, especially in the playoffs.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Burner

His head snapped back not because it was hit but because his body took a very hard impact hit.

That doesn't look like the case to me after watching the video.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

I'd say if you had to rate a players vulnerability, Eller was at least an 8, if not a 10 out of 10. Eller shouldn't have put himself in such a position, Diaz shouldn't of made the pass, but the reason Eller was hurt was because Gryba went for the big hit.

It says a lot that people have to flat out make things up to try and justify this suspension. And that is precisely what you are doing right now.

Can't there still be big hits where you don't hit the head at all?

There is absolutely no humanly possible way to eliminate hits to the head without eliminating contact entirely. And that is becuase you can't control the stupidity of the person receiving the hit. But that is neither here nor there, becuase the head wasn't the primary point of contact in this case.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

It's the pressure from the media (mostly American) that forces these suspensions. If you watch any coverage ESPN gives these type of incidents they always say that the book should be thrown at the offender. Whether or not they know what a clean hit really is, they always look at the end result (a bad injury in this case), and say the guy should be suspended for multiple games. Shanny used to be make better decisions, but now he is acting too much as a reactionary, and is pressured into making wrong calls (straight down for Bettman I'd imagine).

Originally Posted by Bootsy

I doubt this is the end of the road for Shanahan but it will be the end of the road for body contact in hockey if they decide to punish these type of clean hits with 5 minute majors and suspensions.
After body checking is successfully taken out of the game , one can only hope they eliminate fighting and slap shots next.....combine that with the influx of diving around the league and the NHL will have achieved their seemingly goal of becoming soccer on ice.

The pressure on the NHL is coming increasingly from outside the hockey world. Non-hockey media in Canada and the U.S. Tut-tutting bloggers and columnists. Local media outraged at injured players. The intent of a hit, or even whether it's legal by the book or not, has become largely irrelevant. An NHL self-conscious about its reputation for brutality overreacts and ignores its own rules to appease the voices of outrage. Unless the NHL grows a thicker skin about this stuff, it doesn't matter who sits in the Mr. Disciplinarian chair.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

You have to think the vast majority of players would like to see these hit taken out of the game as well, so many times it seems as though it is the 5-6 Dman or 4th liner at the centre of the incident.

Gryba actually spent the majority of the season in Ottawa's top four, albeit primarily because of Karlsson's injury, and is one of their penalty killing defencemen.

And as to your assessment of what the players think, I would bet you are wrong. The players are smarter than some fans in that they realize there are risks to playing the game. And while they would surely like to take hits that are attempts to injure and/or target the head out, this hit was neither. I would suggest most players would say that stepping up in that situation is exactly what the player should do, as it is what the player is trained to do. The alternative is to stand there and let Eller blow by him. And I guarantee you that if that happened, you'd be all over the player for being a terrible defenceman.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Gryba actually spent the majority of the season in Ottawa's top four, albeit primarily because of Karlsson's injury, and is one of their penalty killing defencemen.

And as to your assessment of what the players think, I would bet you are wrong. The players are smarter than some fans in that they realize there are risks to playing the game. And while they would surely like to take hits that are attempts to injure and/or target the head out, this hit was neither. I would suggest most players would say that stepping up in that situation is exactly what the player should do, as it is what the player is trained to do. The alternative is to stand there and let Eller blow by him. And I guarantee you that if that happened, you'd be all over the player for being a terrible defenceman.

While I agree to an extent, the fact is that clean hits today routinely spur teammates to go after whoever laid on the hit, in the same way a dirty play does. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. A clean hit was a hockey play. Now it's an insult that has to be avenged. So today's NHL players seem to have an ambivalent attitude about hitting.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Locke

In which case it should be the end of the road for Brendan Shannahan.

Hell, any monkey can make calls or suspensions to appease the masses. Thats beyond simple. If Shanny wants to keep his job then he should make the right calls despite the pressure.

I would also argue that in the long run, appeasing the masses is best done by creating faith in the leagues disciplinary system.

People will always be unhappy about this stuff, but if people would have faith that there is a serious attempt to give the decisions out fairly, then they would be more ready to accept decisions they don't agree on.

I still think the disciplinary system is somewhat improved under Shanahan. At the moment I'd call it barely tolerable, when before it was a total joke.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by DarkSaturn

Same garbage as ever... punishing the results rather than the intent.

Meanwhile, this probably doesn't even get looked at:

Okay, that's something you don't see everyday; a simultaneous attempt at kneeing AND an elbow to the head.

Should be the easiest suspension ever.

[DuffMan]

End of the road? Because the op doesn't agree with his decision? Seems a little melodramatic. If it was the end of the road for everyone I disagree with, this world would be empty

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by DarkSaturn

Same garbage as ever... punishing the results rather than the intent.

Meanwhile, this probably doesn't even get looked at:

See, this is exactly the type of call I would like to see. Believe it or not, hockey players are smart (at sports). You suspend a guy for pinching on a suicide pass? What kind of message does that send? It's pretty clear. Do a suicide pass again because:

a) there's a suspension to one of your opponents
b) you get a breakaway

Meanwhile you get away with malicious intent type of things as long as nothing bad happens. The Ference elbow, and the play above are 'dumb dumb' moves that are completely unnecessary, dirty and easily avoided. Even if the player bounces back up there can still be lingering effects. Why not 5 games for an attempted elbow? The players are clearly not learning. Asinine!

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

The chin is part of the head. The head snapped back first when he got hit. I'm not saying it was an intent to injure, or even intentional. But it was a hit to the head. Hits to the head aren't OK, period. They don't have to be hits from behind, skates leaving the ice, elbows, helmets, knee drops, chair shots, sledgehammers, crowbars, or anything else. IDGAF if it's a shoulder that makes contact. No hits to the head. Period.

This is a league that calls a penalty every time a puck is accidentally shot into the stands, or a stick gets broken by a slash from another stick. I don't think a zero tolerance policy on hits to the head is a bad idea in comparison.

That's the thing, it wasn't a hit to the head. As many, many posters have pointed out in the series thread, whiplash is the cause of the head "snap". Was not a hit to the head. Period.

I agree hits to the head should be cracked down on, let me know when you see one however.

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I do believe it was a clean hit, not an head shot. I also believe he had every intention of hitting Eller as hard as humanly possible, which would definitely cause an injury. There is a lot of grey area with this hit and many ones like it. A body check is to be used to separate puck from body and big hits like this, although delivered cleanly, have every intention of taking someone out (injuring). As clean as they may be I don't have a problem with trying to get them out of the game, nobody wants to see a player out cold bleeding on the ice.

Unless I'm horribly mistaken, attempting to hit someone "as hard as humanly possible" is in no way an illegal hit providing everything about it is clean. You are opening a huge can of worms if you want to start looking at limiting how hard players can hit one another. Regardless it has nothing to do with this case as that was not the evidence given for the lolsuspension. Nor could it be because I doubt you will find any rule against clean, hard open ice hits.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by calumniate

See, this is exactly the type of call I would like to see. Believe it or not, hockey players are smart (at sports). You suspend a guy for pinching on a suicide pass? What kind of message does that send? It's pretty clear. Do a suicide pass again because:

a) there's a suspension to one of your opponents
b) you get a breakaway

Meanwhile you get away with malicious intent type of things as long as nothing bad happens. The Ference elbow, and the play above are 'dumb dumb' moves that are completely unnecessary, dirty and easily avoided. Even if the player bounces back up there can still be lingering effects. Why not 5 games for an attempted elbow? The players are clearly not learning. Asinine!

I've always said the same thing about players on the receiving end of some checking from behind or boarding calls. Some onus has to be on the players that knowingly put themselves in that position in which the player throwing the hit has no way to avoid the contact. Attempting to stop a foot from the boards instead of using them to brace the hit while the guy is right behind you or already initiating contact even and you are fully aware.

Plenty of players knowingly do stupid things like those plays and have no real incentive to stop. Something should be done to crack down on that crap.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

The chin is part of the head. The head snapped back first when he got hit. I'm not saying it was an intent to injure, or even intentional. But it was a hit to the head. Hits to the head aren't OK, period. They don't have to be hits from behind, skates leaving the ice, elbows, helmets, knee drops, chair shots, sledgehammers, crowbars, or anything else. IDGAF if it's a shoulder that makes contact. No hits to the head. Period.

This is a league that calls a penalty every time a puck is accidentally shot into the stands, or a stick gets broken by a slash from another stick. I don't think a zero tolerance policy on hits to the head is a bad idea in comparison.

This may be the case, however, on many occasions Shanahan has chosen not to suspend, or even review similar hits, because the initial point of contact is the body, and there was no use of the elbow.

I feel, as most do, that it sucks that eller got hurt. And that was ugly for anybody to watch, opposing team included. But by rule, this was a clean hit.

Shanahan was in a no win situation, and I believe there was pressure from above to keep Gryba out for a couple of games to eleviate the need for vengeance, or an ugly Bertuzzi/Moore type of incident.

The problem is that now it appears that tensions have elevated in Gryba's absence, and he is due back in the line-up for the next game.

The best case scenario for both teams is for him to answer the bell against prust, then let the game play out, as the stakes are quite high.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling there will be some ugliness coming out of game 4.

[FAN]

This was just a bad situation. It sucks that Eller got hurt and it sucks that Gryba got suspended. Fact is this was very close to a perfectly timed hit (you can argue that it actually was). Had Eller looked up a split second before Gryba touched him, there would be no doubt that the hit would be mostly shoulder to chest.

Trying to protect players from themselves is going to be a difficult thing to do. What happens if you have a player who skates in a hunchback style and constantly has his head down? Every straight on hit will most certainly be a hit to the head, so what is a defender to do? Maybe you'll see defenders just stop and perform the equivalent of a hard pick in basketball.