Projected $1.9 million shortfall for the Heat in 2012/13 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Pierre "Monster" McGuire · 05-02-2013, 08:40 PM

http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/...706/story.html

Quote:

The overall shortfall for the Abbotsford Entertainment and Sports Centre is expected to come close to the $4-million dollar mark for 2012.

The AESC's operating deficit has been finalized at $1.9 million in 2012, which was a marginal improvement over the previous year, said Salman Azam, Abbotsford's director of finance.

However, that figure does not include a projected $1.9 million Abbotsford Heat hockey team shortfall anticipated for the club's 2012/13 season.

Quote:

Lack of fan attendance has been the persistent reason behind the Heat deficits, which cost taxpayers $1.8 million for the 2011/12 hockey season, $1.37 million in 2010/11 and $450,637 in the inaugural 2009/10 season.

Quote:

The city has stated in the past that the arena needs to book about 60 events a year and the Heat must draw 6,000 fans per game to eliminate the shortfall.

That last quote is what really floors me. That's just complete ill planning on everyone involved in the building of the AESC.

In order to strike even, they need 6000 people per game and 60 events per year. Even with hindsight those seem like lofty expectations in a no fun city like Abbotsford.

greentree · 05-02-2013, 11:25 PM

No wonder Abbotstford taxpayers are p*ssed.

Alberta_Beef · 05-02-2013, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greentree

No wonder Abbotstford taxpayers are p*ssed.

maybe they should start going to games then. at least they would get something out of it.

Freeway · 05-03-2013, 12:04 AM

The City of Abbotsford has paid the Heat $5.5 million over the past four seasons.

Ozy_Flame · 05-03-2013, 12:14 AM

The city should not hold their citizens hostage for an arena and team they probably don't want to support. I don't blame the people of Abbotsford if they're pissed. I would be too.

WTF was the point of putting a Flames-based team that close to Canuck country?

This is bad for AESC, the city of Abbotsford, the Flames, and even (as much as I hate to say it) Canucks fans. Nobody is winning here.

Just move the Heat to Saskatchewan already and get it over with. That's my generalization.

neo45 · 05-03-2013, 07:09 AM

^The only party that this isn't bad for is the Flames. They have a sweetheart deal where they develop their players close to home and can't lose money doing so. Ken King/Darryl did a nice job getting this set up, and I believe the Canucks will have to buy the Flames out if they want to take over AHL in Abbotsford

Canada 02 · 05-03-2013, 07:22 AM

Do Heat games count toward the 60 events needed for the arena to break even? I assume it does since they only have 4 events booked for the rest of the year.

A curling tournament will occupy the building for about a week, so that is 10 days of use, plus ~40 Heat games. If the Heat made the playoffs, it would go a long way towards filling the remaining # of dates.

The bigger issue is attendance at Heat games. How the heck do they attract another 2300 fans per games? Would a Canuck affiliate get 6000 fans? They can do it for a few games when they are the visiting team, but would those fans show up 40x?

nik- · 05-03-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

maybe they should start going to games then. at least they would get something out of it.

So they should resolve paying for this in taxes by spending more of their own money to go watch a rival team's farm club?

Enoch Root · 05-03-2013, 09:39 AM

At a STH luncheon yesterday, KK stated that the Flames will definitely be in Abby again this coming year (though he obviously committed to nothing beyond this year).

Fire · 05-03-2013, 12:38 PM

It gives me pleasure knowing it's mostly Canuck fans that are footing the bill to cover the losses of the Flames farm team.

Alberta_Beef · 05-03-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

So they should resolve paying for this in taxes by spending more of their own money to go watch a rival team's farm club?

you look at it as spending more money, I see it as stopping taxes from rising. They are going to pay for it one way or the other, might as well get some entertainment value from it.

FlamesAddiction · 05-03-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada 02

The bigger issue is attendance at Heat games. How the heck do they attract another 2300 fans per games? Would a Canuck affiliate get 6000 fans? They can do it for a few games when they are the visiting team, but would those fans show up 40x?

I think they need to do it the same way they do it in NHL markets that struggle. Cheap tickets and freebies, then slowly start charging more. Maybe they already do, I don't know.

I think one thing they absolutely need to do is get some "name" players that will be with the team for a few years. The Moose did it right when they had Mike Keane. If they start getting some conitnuity and name recognition, it should help build the fanbase and help them forget that it is a Flames farm team. Basically, they need to build an identity.

moon · 05-03-2013, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

you look at it as spending more money, I see it as stopping taxes from rising. They are going to pay for it one way or the other, might as well get some entertainment value from it.

I imagine if they thought they would get entertainment value from AHL hockey they already would go to the games.

Alberta_Beef · 05-03-2013, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I imagine if they thought they would get entertainment value from AHL hockey they already would go to the games.

not everyone hates everything about the AHL and the Flames prospects like you

moon · 05-03-2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

not everyone hates everything about the AHL and the Flames prospects like you

Not sure the need to go at me for, seems like a pretty simple concept that people would go if they wanted the problem is they don't.

You getting pissy about things on a message board doesn't change that.

The Swedish Flame · 05-03-2013, 09:27 PM

Out of curiosity, what is the average attendance in a city of Abbotsford's size in the AHL?

Pierre "Monster" McGuire · 05-04-2013, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Swedish Flame

Out of curiosity, what is the average attendance in a city of Abbotsford's size in the AHL?

That's a very good question. I've always wondered myself where Abby ranks in terms of AHL cities. My guess is they're in the upper 15.

Vulcan · 05-04-2013, 01:51 PM

In the AHL there's only a couple of cities with a metro population close to Abbotsford's 170,000. St. John's has 197,000; Glen Falls has 128,774; Worcester has 181,000 but they are a suburb of Boston. All the other cities metro areas are above 500,000 with many above a million population.

It looks to me that Abbotsford has to rely on more tickets being sold to other areas in the Fraser Valley and Vancouver to make a go of it.

nik- · 05-04-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

not everyone hates everything about the AHL and the Flames prospects like you

No one is going to the games, so what is more likely?

1. They like the product and feel it's worth the money.

2. They don't.

foshizzle11 · 07-14-2013, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire

It gives me pleasure knowing it's mostly Canuck fans that are footing the bill to cover the losses of the Flames farm team.

ya, this is amazing to me. The canucks should just buy us out. I like the idea of having the farm team out east anyway. It is much easier for the players in terms of travel and such.

Having the team in Sask would be interesting as well. I wonder how well that would go over, if they would be popular. How hard is it to compete with a CHL team?