Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[dammage79]

Loubardias Swooned on the fan about Nurse the other day. Saying he was the second best athlete in the draft next to Jones. And his ceiling was endless.

I suppose if everyone was smoking some meth minutes before the draft and Lindholm or Monahan were still in the board and they took Nurse I won't rage....but I will question my own sanity and logic and maybe rethink my whole stance on hockey in general.

You can get great d-men anywhere in the draft. Centers of good quality are so bloody rare for the Flames it's insane to think they would target otherwise. we shall see two months from now.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Newton

I have this daydream that with Pittsburgs pick the Flames snag Tigers captain Hunter Shinkarik.

He is a special player, I have watched junior hockey for 25 years, the team that gets this guy will be better for it. Creative, offensive, sneaky and has a nose for the net. I don't remember the last time the Tigers named a 17 year old their captain (Trevor Lindon maybe)

He probably isn't ready to make the jump in 2013/14 because he needs to lead he Tigers on a deep payoff run next year

Don't get your hopes up. If you want him it will take Calgary's pick. St. Louis' pick (say around 20th) would be an extreme steal. He's projected to go in the top 10 by many. Hoffner from NHL.com has him at 4th, http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=667710, which seems a bit absurd.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by kn

All I know is that I will have a meltdown if at #6 with either or both of Lindholm or Monahan available, we take someone else.

Why? Because CP said I should. I hadn't heard of either of these players prior to this thread.

that's true... but i have now

Spoiler!

[nik-]

I will admit, if we don't take the opportunity to finally draft a high end center, I'll freak out.

If that makes me dumb, then I'm dumb.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by nik-

I will admit, if we don't take the opportunity to finally draft a high end center, I'll freak out.

If that makes me dumb, then I'm dumb.

BCA. If any franchise needs to get a chance at a franchise centre, it's the Flames.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

BCA. If any franchise needs to get a chance at a franchise centre, it's the Flames.

Based on the number of centers ranked high and the number of defense men ranked toward the tail end of the first round, the Flames better take the BCA. It would be criminal to pass up the opportunity.

[driveway]

Here are this year's top 20 scoring centres and their draft position.

Stamkos - 1
Crosby -1
E. Staal -2
Datsyuk - 171
Getzlaf - 19
Ribeiro - 45
Toews - 3
Backstrom - 4
Tavares - 1
Sedin - 3
Stepan - 51
Kadri - 7
Duchene - 3
Kopitar - 11
Thornton - 1
Tlusty - 13
Gagner - 6
Couture - 9
Koivu - 6
Hodgson - 10

Based on this list, it seems pretty obvious that it's very, very difficult to find a top-scoring center outside of the top 10 in the draft. Also, of the players on this list, only Thornton, Hodgson, Ribiero and Tlusty are not playing for the team they were drafted by, demonstrating that it's extremely difficult to acquire a #1 centre through trade.

Based on this, and having watched the Flames overall lack of success over the last couple of decades without that #1 I think it would be a huge, huge mistake not to draft a centre with our selection.

I won't go postal if we take Nurse. From what I understand his ceiling is up in the Pronger/Niedermayer/Chara neighbourhood, but I would really like a centre.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by driveway

Here are this year's top 20 scoring centres and their draft position.

Stamkos - 1
Crosby -1
...

Based on this list, it seems pretty obvious that it's very, very difficult to find a top-scoring center outside of the top 10 in the draft.

But that's not all that entirely different than the wingers. Probably around half the top 20 of them where drafted in the top 5 as well. I understand the sentiment in going for a center, I've heard having a good one is nice. But the Flames have room for a great young player in any position, with maybe a little bit of an exception being left wing. I'd say go BPA. If that player is a center it's even better. If it's too close to call between a winger/defenseman and a center, drafting the center makes sense.

Otherwise skipping over a winger in years past in order to grab a center could have meant picking Turris over Kane, Brule over Ryan, Hamill over Voracek, McNeill over Baertschi. Fortunately I think this is a year not entirely unlike 2006 and 2009 where the top 10 will be filled with a bunch of centers and the Flames coming away with one is likely.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

But that's not all that entirely different than the wingers. Probably around half the top 20 of them where drafted in the top 5 as well. I understand the sentiment in going for a center, I've heard having a good one is nice. But the Flames have room for a great young player in any position, with maybe a little bit of an exception being left wing. I'd say go BPA. If that player is a center it's even better. If it's too close to call between a winger/defenseman and a center, drafting the center makes sense.

Otherwise skipping over a winger in years past in order to grab a center could have meant picking Turris over Kane, Brule over Ryan, Hamill over Voracek, McNeill over Baertschi. Fortunately I think this is a year not entirely unlike 2006 and 2009 where the top 10 will be filled with a bunch of centers and the Flames coming away with one is likely.

That's fine if they take BPA, but in the next 2 drafts it is imperative they take a 1st line center. If they take Nurse over Lindholm or Monahan , they are setting themselves up for reaching in 2014 for a center.

[Fischy13]

What if the Flames are looking to the big picture, liking a C better in the next draft..... Focusing now on a D. Look at the silly Oilers to the north. They had Shultz land on their lap, if it wasnt for him, they will have 4-5 years to develope a D from this draft on. They did it backwards, and I understand they can trade one of these forwards for one, but one would think having hat guy grow with the team over the years would be ideal. Look at the Hawks. Keith, seabrook and then got toews and Kane. Just saying, I'd understand if they went D with an eye on next years top draft eligible Center. Reinhart?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

That's fine if they take BPA, but in the next 2 drafts it is imperative they take a 1st line center. If they take Nurse over Lindholm or Monahan , they are setting themselves up for reaching in 2014 for a center.

Sure, and if they do end up sucking next year or the year after, Reinhart, Nylander and McDavid would all look good with a Flaming C on their jersey. Or maybe their other 2 first round picks end up being centers and exceed expectations.

But I think it's more important to get a corner block with the 6th* overall pick, regardless of position, than trying to force the issue by picking a center. I mean, can we really complain if they get a great defenseman or winger? They'll need them anyways. And could you imagine if they were in the position to draft the next Kane (let's say less ######y) and end up picking a Turris?

However, I do hope it's a bit moot and they do believe the BPA is someone like Lindholm or Monahan but I wont condemn them until the players actually develop.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

What if the Flames are looking to the big picture, liking a C better in the next draft..... Focusing now on a D. Look at the silly Oilers to the north. They had Shultz land on their lap, if it wasnt for him, they will have 4-5 years to develope a D from this draft on. They did it backwards, and I understand they can trade one of these forwards for one, but one would think having hat guy grow with the team over the years would be ideal. Look at the Hawks. Keith, seabrook and then got toews and Kane. Just saying, I'd understand if they went D with an eye on next years top draft eligible Center. Reinhart?

But that's part of the problem for me, next year the center position is not deep in the top 7. Sorry but the flames will be in the top 5. Can they risk it and hope that Reinhart falls into their lap? If that's the plan then they better be dafting in the top 2.

[T@T]

I'm 99% certain the flames will take a center with their first pick, Unless Jones falls on their lap you can book it.

And for what looks like a few years of doom and gloom remember that this is a weird year where a lot of top teams need to get under the cap. to me this was the best year to sell off expensive vets and have tonnes of cap space. this team could turn it around quickly.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm 99% certain the flames will take a center with their first pick, Unless Jones falls on their lap you can book it.

And for what looks like a few years of doom and gloom remember that this is a weird year where a lot of top teams need to get under the cap. to me this was the best year to sell off expensive vets and have tonnes of cap space. this team could turn it around quickly.

I agree. Not to be overly optimistic, or encourage the idea of "going for it", but this is a weird year, with weird circumstances and the best possible situation to have a bad season.

The draft is deep.

The flames have a pile of capspace and more than a few teams looking to unload assets.

The flames also have a couple of assets other teams may covet in the next calendar year.

What I would really hope is that the management has a clear focused plan, targets the right players, and a fair and accurate timeline. This means that regardless of position, not trading draft picks for players at the 2014 deadline.

I don't wish to pick on Feaster, but it's a fair question as to whether he is the right guy to do this based on the last couple years.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by Flamin' DBag

How high do people think it would possible for the flames to trade up with the pit and stl picks? If they take a forward with their pick, I would be happy if the flames traded up to get a higher end D prospect. Zadorov? Pulock?

Zadorov will most likely be available when it's our turn to pick. If we cannot trade up, I believe Monahan is the one we will grab. Pretty good choice if you ask me. I hope Feaster does everything humanly possible to get MacKinnon though- Zadorov may be available for our next 1st (St.Louis) pick. The draft is weird sometimes. Depends on who needs/wants what when it's go time- If we can grab Max Domi with our 2nd 1st round pick, I think we should- he's got fan favorite written all over him.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

Zadorov will most likely be available when it's our turn to pick.

I would be near stunned if he isn't. But I think Flamin' DBag was just asking how high they could get with the Blues' and Penguins' picks combined, not the Flames' own pick.

So let's say the 22nd and 29th, I think it wouldn't be a terrible bet believing that it could climb you high enough to draft Zadorov or Pulock in that early teen area. For some precedence, the Sabres traded the 21st and 42nd last year for the Flames' 14th. I don't know if I would like that though. Zadorov would solve the size problem but there's enough depth in this draft that I'd like the Flames to be able to roll 2 dice instead of 1.

I'd be perfectly happy if they used one of those picks to climb up with the Flames' pick and got into the big 4 territory but otherwise I'd be fine with staying where they are with the other 2 and hopefully grabbing a couple of players like Morrissey, Domi, Lazar, Hagg (who that one NHL dude somehow ranked 6th), Horvat, Hartman and anyone who falls a bit. Gauthier would be fun to have just to center Gaudreau for the foot and some difference between them.

[driveway]

Left Wing

Ovechkin - 1
Kunitz - Undrafted - X
Hall - 1
Zetterberg - 210
Ladd - 4 - X
Moulson - 263 - X
Nash - 1 - X
Vanek - 5
Sedin - 2
Pacioretty - 22

Right Wing
St. Louis - Undrafted - X
Kane - 1
Kessel - 5 - X
Giroux - 22
Voracek - 7 - X
Semin - 13 - X
Parentau - 264 - X
Wheeler - 5 - X
Dupuis - Undrafted - X
Eberle - 22

Here's the list of top ten scoring Left and Right wingers from this season along with their draft position. Players marked with an X are currently not playing for the team who drafted them, or in the case of undrafted players, the team who first signed them.

While it is true that Best Player Available is a wise drafting strategy, it seems pretty inescapably clear that it's almost impossible to acquire a top-scoring center without a top-ten draft pick, whereas top-scoring wingers are more readily available throughout the draft or via trade.

[skudr248]

^

TBH, these list's are irrelevant in trying to determine what kind of future's any player we draft will have. You would know this if you have ever played tier 1 division sports. You have to look at work ethic, drive, psychological capacity to be able to handle the amount of pressure... I've seen time and time again, playing with a few guy's that could have made it fall short

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by driveway

While it is true that Best Player Available is a wise drafting strategy, it seems pretty inescapably clear that it's almost impossible to acquire a top-scoring center without a top-ten draft pick, whereas top-scoring wingers are more readily available throughout the draft or via trade.

You also need twice as many.

And I think these list fall to pieces regardless of how they are spun once they start comparing Dupuis to someone like Toews. Everyone should know that getting a young impact player of any position is difficult.

Now as a Flames fan, I can assure you I realize it's not a walk in the park grabbing a top line center. But who cares what position a player plays if they don't end up being good. It's still a million times easier building around a top line winger than a 3rd line center. If at pick 6 the scouting staff believes that a certain player will be a bigger impact player than the rest of the available draftees, that's who they need to grab regardless of position. Unless it's a goalie, if it is #### that.

And again, just how this draft looks to be shaping up I wouldn't be surprised to see them come away with one of those centers anyways, but hopefully it's only because they are the BPA.

[FlameZilla]

I think considering so many top line wingers were actually drafted as centres in the first place it's a criminal error not to prioritise that position. Centermen tend to understand the game very well & if need be many are easily able to convert to wing.

I do hope we prioritise drafting a natural centre. I like that one of Monahan's strengths is his faceoff ability. One of the top 3 at faceoffs in the OHL. We haven't had a dominant faceoff winner since Yelle.