So...when are we going to start labelling our menu's?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I have never seen a labelled menu and I hope I never do - I am glad McD and Wendys etc have the nutrition guides, that is all I want. Walk into restaurant and there should be a little guide provided if you want one detailing the nutrition.

Obesity isnt because someone goes out to eat once a week and has a 1500 cal salad. Its because that person doesnt get off his or her respective lardy a$$e$ and move around. Sitting watching Ellen or playing video games is not exercise.

I hate how mama and papa government use the guise of "publically funded" healthcare system as a justification for this sort of nanny state BS.

Tell people the truth. You arent morbidly obese because your salad dressing is high in calories, or because oreo cookies are high in calories, its because piggies eat a whole bag of oreo cookies, or a large bag chips in 1 setting and dont do enough (or likely any) exercise.

Congratulations on not wanting information. This has nothing to do with 'mama and papa government'. It has everything to do with people becoming more aware of what they're eating, and wanting to be able to make informed choices.

It's not always about being morbidly obese, dude. Not everyone can eat just anything. I don't understand why you're so upset by this suggestion. Lol. "Nanny state". Maybe some people just need to watch their salt intake. And maybe some people eat at restaurants more than 'once a week for dinner'. Lots of people eat at restaurants for lunch - five days a week.

I guess I'm lucky because absolutely none of what I'm defending applies to me, I just find it ridiculous how uppity you got in your post. Like the big bad Government was about to impose a healthy lifestyle upon us, and take away our right to be ignorant.

[sun]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Needs larger font.

Need's more apostrophe's.

[sclitheroe]

Ya'll must make a lot of money to eat out often enough for this to be important. If I'm going to a restaurant I want maximum calories for my dollar.

[Azure]

Nanny state would be the government telling us what to eat. I agree with having the labels available. But I admit it would be harder for a smaller restaurant to stay on top of things especially if they have mom cooking and dad running the till.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Ya'll must make a lot of money to eat out often enough for this to be important. If I'm going to a restaurant I want maximum calories for my dollar.

CP is the 1% remember?

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Ya, sounds good in principal but this could be a real hardship for non-chain restaurants. Can you imagine if you had a lunch special that changed every day and you had to figure all of that our first?

Seems like basic math to me, I mean anyone who has done any sort of clean eating thing has done it

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by photon

Since they're the one making it I think it'd still be pretty easy, when I make my own food it's pretty easy to know since I know how much of every ingredient I'm using.

Plus a lunch special that changes every day likely rotates among a range of known options, it's not like they come up with something brand new never made before for each lunch special.

Gotta disagree. The major chains use a lot of pre-packaged food or exact recipes. Smaller restaurants and diners are much more likely to be making something from scratch. Imagine that you have a Clam Chowder on special at lunch that you are making fresh. Now you have to weigh all of the ingredients, get out the calculator and figure out the nutritional info per serving. "Hey Joe, how does this taste?", "could use a bit more salt", "Okay, pass me the scale and the calculator". What if one of the ingredients isn't available at the market that morning, do you change the info on the menu? If anything this would discourage restaurants from making new menu items or cooking from scratch. The last thing we need is more frozen, pre-portioned food.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

..lardy a$$e$

.. piggies...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you've never struggled with obesity.

It's that kind of insulting language that we're trying to get out of the schools, yet we don't have a problem when adults talk that way?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

When I was taking the weight off, I was tracking my calories each and every day. So one day a friend invited me to go out to Cora's for breakfast and I agreed. So I ordered my meal and then tried to record the data in LoseIt!. I went online to look for their nutritional guide and well, Cora's doesn't have one. They've been promising to have one "soon" for the last 4 years and still nothing. Since I really had no clue whatsoever how many calories were in the meal, I gave up on tracking calories for the day. Not having the nutritional information available makes it very hard on those that ARE trying to eat better.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Interestingly enough, I saw an episode of "The Agenda" on TVO where a woman said that putting the calories on the menu actually made those that were NOT closely watching their calorie intake order LESS healthy options. When asked about it, there were a variety of responses:
- "Well, there was nothing REALLY healthy on the menu, so I figured I'd make this a special night out and be decadent"
- "Well, even though this meal was 1,400 calories, there was another one there that was 1,800 calories so I figured this one wasn't toooo bad"
- "I figured I was getting more for my money"
Basically, the interview they did with Kelly McGonigal was about the battle between that little red devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other. And that little red devil can talk that angel into almost anything. Particularly when it comes to food.

[SHOGUN]

When people go to fast food restarantants... they don't care about nutrition or how much vitamins and minerals they are getting... all they care about is eating greasy and filling meals.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

When people go to fast food restarantants... they don't care about nutrition or how much vitamins and minerals they are getting... all they care about is eating greasy and filling meals.

When you say "people", do you mean "all people", "most people", "some people", "a few people"?

I'm with a weight loss support group and just last week our challenge was to take a fast food restaurant menu and try to find the healthiest thing on the menu. When you have a lot of commitments between work, family, volunteering - sometimes making something at home is a luxury. So some people are forced to try to make the best decision they can out of a lot of bad choices available to them. So lumping everyone into a bad pot doesn't help the situation.

Edit: BTW - what we ended up doing in most cases was to ask for modifications to the meal. For example, at Swiss Chalet asking for a baked potato instead of fries, or asking for the salad dressing on the side.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

When people go to fast food restarantants... they don't care about nutrition or how much vitamins and minerals they are getting... all they care about is eating greasy and filling meals.

the only meal I have had at Macdonalds in the last year is Oatmeal.

I do it because I know the calorie count and I know how good a big mac is, and in my head flavour does not equal reward. It makes it very simple to say no.

When I have a hard time with my craves and hunger and I really want something fried I go to A&W. The reason is, I know that their chicken fingers are the lowest calorie count out of them all. I like the Wendy's fingers better but they are twice the calories. So as an informed consumer I make my choices that way.

Macdonalds has seen a strong growth in sales lately and it is due to their coffee and sandwich sales. Their burger menu has seen flat and falling sales for a long time. The market is changing believe it or not.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

When you say "people", do you mean "all people", "most people", "some people", "a few people"?

I'm with a weight loss support group and just last week our challenge was to take a fast food restaurant menu and try to find the healthiest thing on the menu. When you have a lot of commitments between work, family, volunteering - sometimes making something at home is a luxury. So some people are forced to try to make the best decision they can out of a lot of bad choices available to them. So lumping everyone into a bad pot doesn't help the situation.

Edit: BTW - what we ended up doing in most cases was to ask for modifications to the meal. For example, at Swiss Chalet asking for a baked potato instead of fries, or asking for the salad dressing on the side.

Personally, if people were serious and committed in their goal to lose weight and improve their quality of life... avoiding fast food restaurants should be at the top of their list, not finding 'healthy' alternatives in these restaurants. It takes less than 5 minutes to prepare a healthy sandwich or salad from home you can take with you... so I don't think it's a 'luxury' but rather laziness.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Gotta disagree. The major chains use a lot of pre-packaged food or exact recipes. Smaller restaurants and diners are much more likely to be making something from scratch. Imagine that you have a Clam Chowder on special at lunch that you are making fresh. Now you have to weigh all of the ingredients, get out the calculator and figure out the nutritional info per serving. "Hey Joe, how does this taste?", "could use a bit more salt", "Okay, pass me the scale and the calculator". What if one of the ingredients isn't available at the market that morning, do you change the info on the menu? If anything this would discourage restaurants from making new menu items or cooking from scratch. The last thing we need is more frozen, pre-portioned food.

I guess it depends on how accurate the measurements have to be, if the menu says 400mg of salt and it's actually 450, it's not going to be the end of the world in most cases.

But I understand your point, but just because something is a challenge doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

It's that kind of insulting language that we're trying to get out of the schools, yet we don't have a problem when adults talk that way?

Fat people have their flaws and challenges visible on the outside insulting them and deriding them helps the people who's flaws are on the inside feel better about themselves, it's a public service.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Personally, if people were serious and committed in their goal to lose weight and improve their quality of life... avoiding fast food restaurants should be at the top of their list, not finding 'healthy' alternatives in these restaurants. It takes less than 5 minutes to prepare a healthy sandwich or salad from home you can take with you... so I don't think it's a 'luxury' but rather laziness.

I stay two nights a week in a hotel room. That is 6 meals away from being able to pack a healthy sandwich.

Are you aware what healthy alternatives are available at a fast food establishment now? I'm good with having a grilled chicken breast on a 100% whole wheat bun with a garden salad.

Please tell me more about how I am living my life wrong in your eyes.

[Nage Waza]

The other thing we really need is to use the letter grade system for restaurant inspections like they use in California. Every restaurant in the state has a foot tall letter posted at their door indicating their inspection grade. If you get a perfect inspection you get to post an 'A' on your door, just pass you get a 'C'.
I actually had a chance to meet with the inspectors here in Calgary and they told me the idea is stupid and not possible. I suggested they should be replaced with people that care!!!

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I think this is a bit opposite. In my mind, the chain restaurants are far larger portions than McDonalds. I pulled up the nutritional information at Boston pizza and their bassic burger with no bacon or cheese and a side of fries is 1310 calories, 70g of fat and 3030 mg of sodium.
A Big Mac and medium fries comes in at 890 calories, 47 g of fat and 1290 mg of sodium.
The coke is a wash, except that at Boston Pizza they will come around and refill it as much as you want while McDonalds makes you go to them for a refill.

Portion sizes at many lower end priced sit down restaurants like a Boston Pizza is a big thing. If you put a standard nutrition guide potion meal on a plate vs what a typical restaurant plate has, it's usually a lot less food. Even a BP half order looks to be at least 50% more food than a properly sized portion. But what restaurant has the balls to serve meals on normal sized plates, and not have the plate covered in food? How many customers will complain about lack of value, vs those who will be pleased with getting a properly sized meal portion wise. Especially at places that are not high end, where customers are far more focused on price.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Interestingly enough, I saw an episode of "The Agenda" on TVO where a woman said that putting the calories on the menu actually made those that were NOT closely watching their calorie intake order LESS healthy options. When asked about it, there were a variety of responses:
- "Well, there was nothing REALLY healthy on the menu, so I figured I'd make this a special night out and be decadent"
- "Well, even though this meal was 1,400 calories, there was another one there that was 1,800 calories so I figured this one wasn't toooo bad"
- "I figured I was getting more for my money"
Basically, the interview they did with Kelly McGonigal was about the battle between that little red devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other. And that little red devil can talk that angel into almost anything. Particularly when it comes to food.

For me, this is the reason I am aganist the labeling of menus. Not only would be hard to determine which and how much information to put on the menu, calories, fat, sodium, etc., the above point helps show that it likely will not make a difference. People say "I'm treating myself" or "I'm on vacation" or "what is another 200 calories?" etc.

Essentially, the administrative burden for resturants to impliment this accurately (plus the annoyance of having all this information on a menu) greatly outwieghs the benefits that the general population will derive from the information.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Ya'll must make a lot of money to eat out often enough for this to be important. If I'm going to a restaurant I want maximum calories for my dollar.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

For me, this is the reason I am aganist the labeling of menus. Not only would be hard to determine which and how much information to put on the menu, calories, fat, sodium, etc., the above point helps show that it likely will not make a difference. People say "I'm treating myself" or "I'm on vacation" or "what is another 200 calories?" etc.

Essentially, the administrative burden for resturants to impliment this accurately (plus the annoyance of having all this information on a menu) greatly outwieghs the benefits that the general population will derive from the information.

No it doesn't. If your looking for some evidence, one way or the other, feel free to take a look at the studies done and quoted in the OP which clearly show menu labelling legislation does make a significant difference.

There are always going to be people who will say "I'm treating myself" or some such thing. And there will always be others who simply do not care what they eat at any time, health and obesity be damned. But when you have studies showing identical franchise restaurants, in the same geographical region of the US, with the franchises being impacted by menu labelling showing a 12-20% reduction in calorie consumption - I think you have evidence showing this legislation would make a difference and would definitely be worth it for Canada in the long run.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I wonder if that is because places like McDonalds have had to show their nutritional information for so long. They know it is out there and don't want to be vilified so they start making decisions with that in mind.

BPs and the like will always make the choice for the tastier option regardless of the health effects because people aren't aware of their nutritional information. If it was posted on the menu they might find they have to start using healthier ingredients and portion sizes.

So true. And even with their published Nutritional Information, it's not always up-to-date. Out of curiosity I wanted to find out how many calories were in a Pizzaburger and I couldn't find that info anywhere.