New Vehicle...Rav 4, CRV, Others ???

[photon]

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/2013-VDS-Study.htm
http://autos.jdpower.com/content/stu...dy-results.htm

[Table 5]

Those JD Powers awards are such BS. How can you determine the reliability of a car while it's still new?

Reliability during the first few years doesn't matter that much... it's all covered under warranty anyway. What really matters is how reliable your car is AFTER the warranty runs out. And that's not something you can judge right now. JD Powers is pretty much just BS to give manufacturers something to advertise with.

You're much better of using something like TrueDelta, where you get real tracking from owners over the life of the car. It's not some neat little award, and it can take years to get a good read on a particular model, but I find it more realistic.

[Hatter]

I was considering upgrading in size from my Mazda 6 wagon, and drove a lot of smaller CUVs. My favorite hands down was the new Escape. I didn't end up taking the plunge, but it was a sweet ride.

[albertGQ]

When someone asks me this question & has kids. I always answer with the Mazda 5.
But no one ever listens to me

[photon]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Those JD Powers awards are such BS. How can you determine the reliability of a car while it's still new?

They don't, 1 year old cars just get an initial build quality thing which counts # of problems per 100 cars.

Dependability is done on cars a few years old.

Originally Posted by Table 5

Reliability during the first few years doesn't matter that much... it's all covered under warranty anyway. What really matters is how reliable your car is AFTER the warranty runs out.

Well that matters if you intend to have a car for that long.

The ratings aren't BS, they just are what they are, they're some information. If you want to know how reliable a model is on average after 10 years then yes those stats will be pretty much irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Table 5

You're much better of using something like TrueDelta, where you get real tracking from owners over the life of the car. It's not some neat little award, and it can take years to get a good read on a particular model, but I find it more realistic.

That makes sense, tracking a car for longer will result in information about the car for more years.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The Rav4 has the tailgate that opens "sideways" like a regular door, which I don't like at all.

Not anymore. They've gotten rid of that in the 2013 as they've moved the spare tire under the cargo area so the tailgate opens vertically now.

[Cheese]

My wife has the VW Tiguan and LOVES it. She had a Rav 4 before this one and she said she wouldnt go back.
Lots more kick in the Tig and far better handling. Take one for a test drive.

Havent had one issue with the vehicle in the 3 years weve had it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

Not anymore. They've gotten rid of that in the 2013 as they've moved the spare tire under the cargo area so the tailgate opens vertically now.

Ah, ok. That was one of the big reasons we didn't go with them a few years ago, and my parent's 2012 has that. Good to know they've changed it. Personally, I'm hoping the Escape's no touch opening system 1) actually works2) gets copied by everyone else

[theg69]

Originally Posted by blankall

This isn't true anymore. The Fords score around the same in reliability as their Nissan and Toyota counterparts. Overall, the Fords are a lot more fun to drive and you tend to get better value.

OP, I'd look into a Subaru Outback. It's more wagony than SUV but there are some great deals in terms of financing on these right now. Also, the driving experience on the Outback is miles ahea of the SUVs you're talking about. The CRV, Rav 4, etc.. are going to feel like weighed down cars (which is what they are). The Outback has substantial punch.

I don't know. I did a lot of research on vehicles before I bought mine and they have all consistently ranked Toyota much higher than Nissan or Fords. Fords are comparable to Nissan IMO though. But in my view, you can't compare Nissan to Toyota or Honda (Nissan has had its share of mechanical issues with their cars in the past).

There has been absolutely nothing that would rate Ford as good as a Toyota. Agree that Ford is passed the "Fix Or Repair Daily" phase, but to compare it to Toyota in terms of reliability is foolhardy.

I don't even know why I am defending Toyota/ Lexus so much.. I don't even have one.. LOL

Here are a couple of links:

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...nues-fall.html

Certainly disproves the theory that Ford is catching up to Toyota.

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/consumer-...ty-charts.html
(the chart is quite useful, shows how bad VW actually is. Toyota and Honda are still in a class of their own, you can't compare Nissan to Toyota, Nissan is rated around Ford's reliability).


http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...lity-study.htm

Lexus far exceeds everyone else below them. Ford, though not bad, is still below the industry average cut-off line for dependability.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Ah, ok. That was one of the big reasons we didn't go with them a few years ago, and my parent's 2012 has that. Good to know they've changed it. Personally, I'm hoping the Escape's no touch opening system 1) actually works2) gets copied by everyone else

I forgot about this! The side opening rear door is my least favorite part of the Rav4! A real pain for throwing hockey gear in

[blankall]

Originally Posted by theg69

I don't know. I did a lot of research on vehicles before I bought mine and they have all consistently ranked Toyota much higher than Nissan or Fords. Fords are comparable to Nissan IMO though. But in my view, you can't compare Nissan to Toyota or Honda (Nissan has had its share of mechanical issues with their cars in the past).

There has been absolutely nothing that would rate Ford as good as a Toyota. Agree that Ford is passed the "Fix Or Repair Daily" phase, but to compare it to Toyota in terms of reliability is foolhardy.

I don't even know why I am defending Toyota/ Lexus so much.. I don't even have one.. LOL

Here are a couple of links:

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...nues-fall.html

Certainly disproves the theory that Ford is catching up to Toyota.

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/consumer-...ty-charts.html
(the chart is quite useful, shows how bad VW actually is. Toyota and Honda are still in a class of their own, you can't compare Nissan to Toyota, Nissan is rated around Ford's reliability).


http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...lity-study.htm

Lexus far exceeds everyone else below them. Ford, though not bad, is still below the industry average cut-off line for dependability.

In terms of reliability yes Toyota still has the slight edge over Ford. Ford more than makes up for this slight difference by giving you far more in the car. I drive a Toyota, and it is boring and dull. Toyota has made no effort to change this.

You basically get a lot more bang for your buck with the lower level Fords than you do with the Toyotas. The reliability difference beetween the two brands is very marginal, and, like others have said, noone knows what the long term picture is.

[manwiches]

Update to my previous post.

The guy at Nissan f'ed up, and it's actually either a 3500 dollar rebate, but you take the car in cash or finance at 4.99%. Or you take the 0% financing at a maximum term of 84 months. Sounded too good to be true.

That being said, I test drove the Mazda CX5, and was remarkably impressed. The interior is by far the best out of all of the ones I drove. It didn't feel cheap or too over the top. It was very fluid and easy to understand and use. The drive, I was a little skeptical at first due to the 155hp in the 2.0L engine, however, it had just as much get up and go as the Rogue or Ford Escape. It was also a dream to drive in terms of handling, similar to the Ford. The sales guy mentioned that with Mazda's SkyActiv technology, it reduces the weight, more importantly increases the aerodynamics and decreases friction to achieve these sort of results. I'm a believer after trying it out.

All in, it should cost around 36k, with 0% financing. I will be getting one this weekend most likely.

[polak]

As Jeremy Clarkson would say, If you're looking at those cars in the title just do everyone a favor and don't drive.

[theg69]

Originally Posted by blankall

In terms of reliability yes Toyota still has the slight edge over Ford. Ford more than makes up for this slight difference by giving you far more in the car. I drive a Toyota, and it is boring and dull. Toyota has made no effort to change this.

You basically get a lot more bang for your buck with the lower level Fords than you do with the Toyotas. The reliability difference beetween the two brands is very marginal, and, like others have said, noone knows what the long term picture is.

Fair enough. It's interesting that you drive a Toyota though. Historically though, I would bet on the Toyota being on the road 10 years from now compared to the Ford. I would only put the reliability difference as marginal if you only plan to keep the car within the warranty period. If you plan to keep a car long term, the smart money is still on the Toyota (and Honda to a lesser extent).

Agreed on the bang for your buck but it would definitely still depend on how long you intend to keep your car.

To be honest, no one buys a Toyota or a Lexus because they are "fun cars" because they usually aren't. They do buy it because of reliability and comfort. Not everyone buys a car so that it is "fun to drive". If that was the case, I wouldn't have such a bloody hard time buying a higher end manual transmission car.

So, I do definitely agree that Toyotas are generally bland and boring cars, but what we may view as a con, some people view as a pro. Ie. My mother-in-law loves the cushy comfort soft suspension of the Toyota Venza, so much that she got a 2012 to replace her 2009 one.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by manwiches

Update to my previous post.

The guy at Nissan f'ed up, and it's actually either a 3500 dollar rebate, but you take the car in cash or finance at 4.99%. Or you take the 0% financing at a maximum term of 84 months. Sounded too good to be true.

That being said, I test drove the Mazda CX5, and was remarkably impressed. The interior is by far the best out of all of the ones I drove. It didn't feel cheap or too over the top. It was very fluid and easy to understand and use. The drive, I was a little skeptical at first due to the 155hp in the 2.0L engine, however, it had just as much get up and go as the Rogue or Ford Escape. It was also a dream to drive in terms of handling, similar to the Ford. The sales guy mentioned that with Mazda's SkyActiv technology, it reduces the weight, more importantly increases the aerodynamics and decreases friction to achieve these sort of results. I'm a believer after trying it out.

All in, it should cost around 36k, with 0% financing. I will be getting one this weekend most likely.

Holy crap, I do not understand new car buyers. You could buy pretty much the exact same car with 50,000 kms on it a few years old for $18,000. With used you can get the same car or better for half the price and you give up nothing. Why throw $36,000 of debt on yourself? In three years it'll be like you took a match to 900 twenty-dollar bills. Buy used and you'll lose maybe $5,000 in that same time frame, which is a reasonable cost of ownership IMO.

Also, remember GST. You're going to spend $1800 on GST alone with this deal. A private sale that would be $0.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Holy crap, I do not understand new car buyers. You could buy pretty much the exact same car with 50,000 kms on it a few years old for $18,000. With used you can get the same car or better for half the price and you give up nothing. Why throw $36,000 of debt on yourself? In three years it'll be like you took a match to 900 twenty-dollar bills. Buy used and you'll lose maybe $5,000 in that same time frame, which is a reasonable cost of ownership IMO.

Also, remember GST. You're going to spend $1800 on GST alone with this deal. A private sale that would be $0.

Maybe he doesn't want to buy a car some jack-wad drove the crap out of for 50,000km.

I am not a fan of buying cars privately, as I am not mechanically inclined. If I buy private I have to take it to a mechanic (first find one that I trust) and I would have to get a carfax report.

Buying from a dealership I am fine with, because you usally get a warranty. We bought our RAV brand new, and we have a 07 Tundra we bough used from a dealership and I don't regret either purchase. Oh and I have free oil changes for life and 15% off all service done at the dealership, which I wouldn't get if I bought privately.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Holy crap, I do not understand new car buyers. You could buy pretty much the exact same car with 50,000 kms on it a few years old for $18,000. With used you can get the same car or better for half the price and you give up nothing. Why throw $36,000 of debt on yourself? In three years it'll be like you took a match to 900 twenty-dollar bills. Buy used and you'll lose maybe $5,000 in that same time frame, which is a reasonable cost of ownership IMO.

Also, remember GST. You're going to spend $1800 on GST alone with this deal. A private sale that would be $0.

For a lot of people the peace of mind of driving a new car with warranty is a huge issue. A lot of people are scared of dealing with repairs because there are many unscrupulous mechanics out there.

The other big issue I find is that people want to manage their monthly costs. And with manufacturer incentives around 0-2% vs the 5-7% for used cars, this really drives a lot of people to buying new cars. My mother for example is looking at new RAV4, she wouldn't consider a used car becasue she it very scared of unexpected repair costs.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Maybe he doesn't want to buy a car some jack-wad drove the crap out of for 50,000km.

Yeah well don't buy a car off a jackwad then.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I am not a fan of buying cars privately, as I am not mechanically inclined. If I buy private I have to take it to a mechanic (first find one that I trust) and I would have to get a carfax report.

Well a thorough mechanical inspection will cost $160 at a dealership and a carfax is $40, so I guess my estimate of him saving $18,000 was off. Apologies, OP, you would only save $17,800.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Buying from a dealership I am fine with, because you usally get a warranty. We bought our RAV brand new, and we have a 07 Tundra we bough used from a dealership and I don't regret either purchase. Oh and I have free oil changes for life and 15% off all service done at the dealership, which I wouldn't get if I bought privately.

Saving 15% on dealership service puts you a little closer to regular service rates at any other garage in town. Oil changes are $40 two or three times a year. That's chump change.

I'm glad you don't regret either purchase. But you can't tell me it's smart financially to buy new because it's not. That's all I'm saying.

[red sky]

Shhhhhhh... If no one buys new cars then who are we going to buy cars from?

[polak]

Something like a Rav 4 I wouldn't care about buying new. Almost no one "drives the crap" out of a Rav 4 or CR-V and they're cheap to fix, fairly reliable and most likely have a lot of warranty left if you buy one that is a year or two old.

If I was buying anything remotely sporty I'd only look at new or EXTREMELY low KMs. But even then, for the latter I would still be really deligent. 10,000 km's of being driven into the ground without proper maintnence will cost you huge in the long run.