Global reveals developer’s plan to control CGY city council

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Well, not for now. But it might be a reality one day, if some politicians have their way all the way. PlanIt Calgary document calls for only a small proportion of new housing to be greenfield single-family in 50 years from now.

Not in anyone's current lifetime. Even if 0% was new single family housing, that doesn't mean everyone would suddenly be forced into 250' apartments.

Plus, I believe there is a fair amount of empty land outside of the reach of Calgary City council. Airdrie is only 15 minutes away!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Plus, I believe there is a fair amount of empty land outside of the reach of Calgary City council. Airdrie is only 15 minutes away!

10 minutes in rush hour.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Those advocating for urban intensification usually think of Manhattan and Arbutus urban atmosphere, where couples stroll along flower shops and cafes holding hands. This is an utopia.

No, it is a product of quality urban design, planning, and development.

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Calgary is a working city with harsh environment. Street walking is not usually a favoured option but a necessity for most from October till May. Not gonna happen here.

People said it would never happen in Copenhagen yet they have the longest pedestrian street in the World in what is one of the most livable cities in the World.

A poor attitude and a planning system that only accommodates one type of development are the real obstacles. Yet even they can be removed.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

... Airdrie is only 15 minutes away!

Exactly. This is one of the very likely effects of PlanIt Calgary – pushing people that want to live in an affordable SF home out of Calgary city limits. So, they'd work here but live and pay taxes to airdries and cochranes, which would be a bad economic outcome for Calgary.

[chemgear]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...al-wenzel.html

A covert recording of a meeting shows the head of one of Calgary’s biggest home building companies implicating himself in criminal wrongdoing, says Mayor Naheed Nenshi.

Wenzel addressed media Wednesday morning, saying he’s not sorry for the remarks. He called the allegations he tried to buy council “ridiculous.”

Recording the private meeting and releasing the footage to media is "cowardly," says Wenzel.

He says he's close to finding out who did it.

When asked what he intends to do once he finds that person, Wenzel answered, "I can't say."

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Well, not for now. But it might be a reality one day, if some politicians have their way all the way. PlanIt Calgary document calls for only a small proportion of new housing to be greenfield single-family in 50 years from now.

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Exactly. This is one of the very likely effects of PlanIt Calgary – pushing people that want to live in an affordable SF home out of Calgary city limits. So, they'd work here but live and pay taxes to airdries and cochranes, which would be a bad economic outcome for Calgary.

You're either more partisan than you admit or really poorly informed.

No one is trying to make the single family home a thing of the past, no matter how much home builders try to make it sound that way. But I think you already know that.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...al-wenzel.html

He says he's close to finding out who did it.

When asked what he intends to do once he finds that person, Wenzel answered, "I can't say."

Hahaha, that's because he doesn't know what he's going to do. Even if he does, the leak is already out there, and his comments have been publicized.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Exactly. This is one of the very likely effects of PlanIt Calgary – pushing people that want to live in an affordable SF home out of Calgary city limits. So, they'd work here but live and pay taxes to airdries and cochranes, which would be a bad economic outcome for Calgary.

There is no way the surrounding areas could support the bulk of Calgary's population growth. They have neither the infrastructure nor administrative capabilities to facilitate that amount of development.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Addick

There is no way the surrounding areas could support the bulk of Calgary's population growth. They have neither the infrastructure nor administrative capabilities to facilitate that amount of development.

Take a look at how quickly boomburbs can grow in other metropolitan areas in North America (especially the GTA!). As Calgary gets more restrictive on land supply/uses for greenfield development within the city limits the greater the price discrepancy for single family homes exists between places like Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, Strathmore and Calgary, the faster those areas will grow and it can happen fairly rapidly.

While living that far out isn't my cup of tea since I work downtown, it would be naive to think that in the face of higher costs and restrictions there won't be a greater chunk of people seeking affordable 1500-2500 sq ft homes eleswhere.

That all said, it doesn't mean that what's in PlanIt is wrong for the city. A more bifricated development track of the region where the cost of outlying suburban development is ultimately borne by the city of Airdrie's (and other's) taxpayers, while Calgary gets to focus and spend on densification might actually be best for everyone in the 'suburban' vs. 'urban' debate.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Take a look at how quickly boomburbs can grow in other metropolitan areas in North America (especially the GTA!).

The situation is a bit different in Southern Alberta as: i) Municipalities cannot proceed without a water supply; and ii) Municipalities are limited in how they can generate income to finance their capital and operational budgets.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Take a look at how quickly boomburbs can grow in other metropolitan areas in North America (especially the GTA!). As Calgary gets more restrictive on land supply/uses for greenfield development within the city limits the greater the price discrepancy for single family homes exists between places like Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, Strathmore and Calgary, the faster those areas will grow and it can happen fairly rapidly.

While living that far out isn't my cup of tea since I work downtown, it would be naive to think that in the face of higher costs and restrictions there won't be a greater chunk of people seeking affordable 1500-2500 sq ft homes eleswhere.

That all said, it doesn't mean that what's in PlanIt is wrong for the city. A more bifricated development track of the region where the cost of outlying suburban development is ultimately borne by the city of Airdrie's (and other's) taxpayers, while Calgary gets to focus and spend on densification might actually be best for everyone in the 'suburban' vs. 'urban' debate.

This is happening already.

Smaller municipalities outpace Calgary in home sales growth

The problem I have with documents like PlanIt or ImagineCalgary, is there is little or no reference to what's happening in the market. It's like they believe they can force these changes. Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose change. I just think much of it would happen naturally. I see it in my own community of Highland Park.

Additionally there is no reference to "consumer choice" and I would argue the vast majority of people (especially those with kids or planning a family) still prefer a modest home that isn't crammed onto a postage stamp.

The reality is they are choosing these outlaying towns because they can get a nice size home, on a decent lot and for less money than they can in Calgary.

Meanwhile Calgary isn't addressing this; they are furthering the divide and missing out collecting the tax base.

[Cowboy89]

^ I know that's already happening. In fact almost a third of the Calgary region's growth (as defined by the Calgary Regional Partnership definition) came outside of the city limits. This will only accelerate going forward with slower greenfield growth in the City of Calgary.

[Muta]

I love how lots of people think that there's only two types of living densifications.... single family homes in suburbia and crammed urban condos downtown.

Building urban actually means more effective and efficient densification, not necessarily 'studio apartments' everywhere. You can have sizable properties for families in low-to-medium rise buildings and complexes that are surrounded by instantly-available amenities such as grocery, coffee shops, public plazas, etc.

I guarantee if the flag-waving suburbanite crowd (aka Shane Home customers, lol) did some more detailed research on what densification actually is and saw some new examples around the world, they wouldn't be so hostile and judgmental to the concept of urban living.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Politicians must provide the choice, not dictate the only option.

And again, the argument is not that you shouldn't have choices, its that someone who makes one choice shouldn't have to give money to someone who made the other choice.

We wouldn't make people who like vanilla ice cream pay extra so that we can make offer a rebate on chocolate ice cream, and it doesn't make any more sense to do that for homes. It's good for people who prefer chocolate, it's good for the chocolate ice cream makers, but it distorts the market and its bad for society as a whole.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by First Lady

The reality is they are choosing these outlaying towns because they can get a nice size home, on a decent lot and for less money than they can in Calgary.

Meanwhile Calgary isn't addressing this; they are furthering the divide and missing out collecting the tax base.

"Missing out" on a tax base that costs more to maintain than it provides in revenues isn't really missing out.

And the reason that places like Airdrie are cheaper than Calgary is because there's less demand.

[Tinordi]

Yeah a bunch of false dichotomies being thrown around, add that to a nihilistic race to the bottom argument and you can understand why people get so exasperated.

@Cowboy89

You have to be in it for the long game, city infrastructure and the urban form take up to a century to remake. While the city faces immediate pressures from unfettered development outside of the urban boundary the long term bet is that smart growth and densification will ultimately make more attractive and liveable communities which is going long on the future value of living in Calgary versus the suburban bedroom community.

It just isn't defensible to know that sprawl and SFH development is ultimately financially and environmentally unsustainable but then do nothing about it because your competitors are doing nothing about it. That argument is consistently rebuked time and again that leaders actually enjoy the benefits of leadership and laggards are the ones that pay the costs in the end.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

People that are aggressively supporting one kind of politicians vs. another are akin to horses wearing blinders on a mill. It doesn't matter what kind! They are all bad and good at times. Common sense and balanced thinking are the key here.

I grew up in a crammed 250 sq.ft apartment in a densely populated city where single-family homes were at a huge premium. I gladly traded "the urban feeling of a vibrant city" for a freedom to live on the land. Those advocating for urban intensification usually think of Manhattan and Arbutus urban atmosphere, where couples stroll along flower shops and cafes holding hands. This is an utopia. Calgary is a working city with harsh environment. Street walking is not usually a favoured option but a necessity for most from October till May. Not gonna happen here. I'd rather work hard and go on holidays to Manhattan or Paris, if I can afford it. Politicians must provide the choice, not dictate the only option.

Have you ever been to Manhattan in February? How about August? It's not San Diego, the environment is plenty harsh.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I have listened to it. And I think Nenshi is going off halfcocked like you are. Mind you he has good reason - he is starting to campaign.

I think it's cute that you think Nenshi has these strong feelings because he's starting to campaign.

Nenshi has always been a guy who does what he believes is right and what he believes is right is always what's best for the city. I'm very confident that the mayor has the people of Calgary in mind and the people of Calgary understand he's making decisions in spite of them not being popular decisions and not the easy way out.

There is also no chance that Nenshi loses the upcoming election. Highest approval rate in Canada and he'll steam roll any opposition.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Muta

Building urban actually means more effective and efficient densification, not necessarily 'studio apartments' everywhere. You can have sizable properties for families in low-to-medium rise buildings and complexes that are surrounded by instantly-available amenities such as grocery, coffee shops, public plazas, etc.

I don't think that's lost on them. I'm pretty sure that in their opinion most middle class people should be able to afford their own single family detached home and that's viewed as the ideal. In the urban scenario you describe the natural laws of supply and demand would dictate that over time the dectached home would exceed the affordability of the majority of people.

It might just be that as far as the future of what happens inside the city of Calgary limits is concerned that reality is ultimately unavoidable. Just don't think that the reaction to that will be full capitulation and a movement en masse into townhomes and low-to-medium rise buildings. 'Parasite' communities are going to grow.

[Bigtime]

I too can't understand the "Nenshi is in campaign mode" line that gets trotted out. Unless "campaign mode" is "totally committed and passionate about the city during every waking hour of his day".

What should really scare Cal and his ilk is without any strong mayoral challenger all of us Nenshi folks will have a lot of time on our hands this election to do what we did for him in each ward.