Healthcare Thread #4411

[Azure]

IFF asked.

What about when you wait equally long and then get to pay for it?

I don't like the American system. Never said I did. France, Germany and Sweden are a much better example of something Canada should look at.

But in terms of my problem with the system, in all my visits to the emergency room for stitches and various other 'minor' issues, I have never understood why I always had to wait for a 'doctor' to stitch me up. Why can't nurses be taught to do that?

I mean I get having the doctor check you for serious head trauma, but perhaps the nurses can get your bloody head cleaned up and give you some pain killers while you wait in a secondary waiting room for the doctor? The worst part is always sitting there in pain for hours on end.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Sorry, basically free.

I've been in an ER before, we all have been in an ER before. We've all had long wait times and one point in our life and it sucks in that moment cause we're whiners and we want to be helped ASAP because we're special and important just like my mom always told me.

Then you sit back and think... christ... I'm not getting a bill for any of that and at worst I wasted an afternoon and didn't get to masturbate as much as I would have liked.

Too bad so bad, it's a fair trade off.

It is not even basically free at all. Canadians pay a lot of taxes and will pay even more in the future for that care. I have no problem with that, but lets not try to make it something it isn't.

Another solution would be to create a private side ER. You can go sit in the crappy publicly funded ER for hours on end, or you can pay private insurance and get faster treatment at a private ER. Would probably go a long way to alleviate the problems. All major cases would still go through the public system.

I would gladly pay money to be able to receive care faster.

[Devils'Advocate]

Poor - go to crappy hospital
Rich - go to better, faster hospital

= Flying Spaghetti Monster, GET ME THE HELL OUT OF THIS COUNTRY.

[Violator]

How did your friend cut his finger off?

[Azure]

Table saw I believe. Bit of a freak accident, and not something you'd expect for someone who has been in the renovation industry for 30 years.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Poor - go to crappy hospital
Rich - go to better, faster hospital

= Flying Spaghetti Monster, GET ME THE HELL OUT OF THIS COUNTRY.

So the only option is go to crappy hospital.



Any kind of change that will actually change something will have something to do with two-tier care. Might as well accept it now.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Poor - go to crappy hospital
Rich - go to better, faster hospital

How very Canadian.

[Devils'Advocate]

You have an odd definition of "crappy". From my hospital visits, I've mostly had good to very good experiences, and most people in the other thread said the same thing. Maybe it's just your hospital?

[Azure]

As for private providers that ALREADY exist.

http://www.copemanhealthcare.com/
http://www.provital.ca/
http://www.landmarkhealth.ca/

Not sure how far their services go, but these companies came up in a quick Google search of private health care providers based in Calgary. So lets not pretend and act like there is some form of two-tier healthcare in Canada already.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Azure

So the only option is go to crappy hospital.



Any kind of change that will actually change something will have something to do with two-tier care. Might as well accept it now.

You know, your argument would be better served if you stopped whining so much stopped rolling your eyes like a little brat when someone doesn't agree with you.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You have an odd definition of "crappy". From my hospital visits, I've mostly had good to very good experiences, and most people in the other thread said the same thing. Maybe it's just your hospital?

More like my province. Manitoba has crappy first stage care everywhere. Like I said in the other thread, we didn't have billions in resource revenue to throw at the system though.

But it is still an overall problem with the Canada Health Act.

[Regulator75]

Who is IFF?

[Azure]

Iowa Flames Fan.

[redforever]

One thing that I would like to see reintroduced are the quarterly statements that used to show how much Alberta Health (or whatever province you live in) spent on you for any health related issues. I think they were discontinued because of the cost of mailing these summaries out. However, in a digital age, it would be extremely easy to issue these quarterly statements and I don't think it would be cost prohibitive to mail out the few for those who perhaps are not on line.

Too many Canadians think health care is free when in fact it is not. We pay dearly for our health care with our taxes. Perhaps if we saw how much a doctor's visit was costing health care, an ER visit, whatever, people would be more amenable to actually reforming health care and making it more efficient.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

Another solution would be to create a private side ER. You can go sit in the crappy publicly funded ER for hours on end, or you can pay private insurance and get faster treatment at a private ER. Would probably go a long way to alleviate the problems. All major cases would still go through the public system.

The problem with that is that if you give docs the choice or working in the public or private ERs, your delivery costs within the public system go up.

Of course, one might argue that's it's wrong for the government to achieve lower healthcare costs through a labour monopsomy in the first place.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by redforever

What is truly annoying is the "me" attitude...my injury is the most significant in ER and I want treatment immediately.

You were talking ER. Injuries are classified according to degree of severity. I highly doubt an injury to a finger would be priorized above a heart attack, traffic accident.....

Funny that you should mention that considering the hospital where this happened is in a smaller town, and it is well know in my area that ALL major injuries are re-routed to Winnipeg since it is only 15 min farther. Very rare for a heart attack patient to be brought to the local ER.

I wouldn't expect to see a doctor if I walked into the Health Science Center. I know people who walked into Pan-Am Clinic to see if they could get a MRI, and they did after sitting for 8 hours. I have no problem with that. But we are talking about a local hospital that is basically only there for minor cases and diagnostic tests.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SebC

The problem with that is that if you give docs the choice or working in the public or private ERs, your delivery costs within the public system go up.

Of course, one might argue that's it's wrong for the government to achieve lower healthcare costs through a labour monopsomy in the first place.

What about all those doctors who work for the big corporate health care companies in Calgary like Copeman Health Care?

Is there actually evidence that if you have a two-tier system that doctors leave the public side en mass?

[puckluck2]

Wow, where is that video "everything is amazing and nobody is happy"?

I can't believe anyone who has visited another country would whine about our health care system.

I've always been more than happy with the service I've gotten at hospitals. I've waited 8 hours before and still left with a smile because I know how great the system is and how lucky I am to be in Canada.

[Azure]

Interesting article on 'cheap surgery.'

http://www.businessinsider.com/insid...ust-800-2013-4

About 30 heart surgeries are performed there daily, the highest in the world, at a break-even cost of 1,800 dollars. Most patients are charged more than this, but some of the poorest are treated for free.

.....

So is Shetty a sharp-witted businessman who has spotted a gap in the market or a philanthropist?
"We believe that charity is not scalable. If you give anything free of cost, it is a matter of time before you run out of money, and people are not asking for anything free," he said.
His first foreign venture is a hospital on the Cayman Islands, targeting locals who would normally travel to the US for expensive treatment, and he says he would love to expand into Africa.
From 6,000 beds now in 17 clinics, he aims to expand privately-run Narayana Hrudayalaya Hospitals to a group with 30,000 beds in the next five years.
"The current regulatory structures, the current policies and business strategies (for healthcare) that we have are wrong. If they were right, we should have reached 90 percent of the world's population," he said.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Wow, where is that video "everything is amazing and nobody is happy"?

I can't believe anyone who has visited another country would whine about our health care system.

I've always been more than happy with the service I've gotten at hospitals. I've waited 8 hours before and still left with a smile because I know how great the system is and how lucky I am to be in Canada.

Other countries? Like Lebanon? Or maybe Germany?

I know someone that flew to Germany yesterday to have back surgery on 3 herniated disks in his back. The surgery isn't even legal in Canada yet.

Should I still say our health care system is better? The guy has been living in pain for 10 years now because there is nothing our system can do about it. Now he'll spend the $50k to get in fixed in one of those 'other' countries.

Or should I stop whining because I was blessed to be born in Canada and not some crap hole like Lebanon? Maybe I should, but people tend to get frustrated when a system with obvious problems is not being fixed because the conversation is being dictated by people who use the US as a reason for why we shouldn't change.