Feaster up on the Fan right now - Granlund Signed By Flames

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

None. But I saw him play in the highly offensive World Juniors and to be honest it looked like struggled physically in that tournament at times.

No need to get your back up about my comment.

All thing considered, how do you think he'd do in the American league?

Get my back up? I just wanted to know if your opinion was based on anything. Kind of sounds like you're overestimating the AHL though, "6'4" aggressive monsters and borderline NHL goalies" and all.

I have no idea how he'd do and when he should try it. I guess I could say that issues of transition notwithstanding, I'd expect most skaters to have similar success in the AHL as they do in Europe. I don't think he's likely to have a significant NHL career but sometimes young players develop in surprising ways. He'll be a year older next season, wouldn't be fair to count him out either.

To be honest, I've watched the AHL and if he can't "keep up" there, he's hardly a prospect worth signing.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Is player X Armia or McNeill by chance?

Armia's development's hasn't been hugely disappointing as far as I'm aware. From what I've seen, he's clearly improved even though his stats are similar. I'm sure he'll move to NA soon.

Of course Bärtschi rose a lot in the rankings after the draft so it's not surprising that they're pleased with the pick.

I remember that McNeill didn't look very good to me on the draft day. Don't know if he fits the profile of what the Flames were looking for.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Get my back up? I just wanted to know if your opinion was based on anything. Kind of sounds like you're overestimating the AHL though, "6'4" aggressive monsters and borderline NHL goalies" and all.

I have no idea how he'd do and when he should try it. I guess I could say that issues of transition notwithstanding, I'd expect most skaters to have similar success in the AHL as they do in Europe. I don't think he's likely to have a significant NHL career but sometimes young players develop in surprising ways. He'll be a year older next season, wouldn't be fair to count him out either.

To be honest, I've watched the AHL and if he can't "keep up" there, he's hardly a prospect worth signing.

I read it as a snarky comment. My mistake.

By 6'4" monsters and borderline NHL goalies I mean guys like Finley, Yonkman, Oleksiak and very own Breen. There are several examples though. For the borderline NHL goalies you've got Mrazek, Hackett, Holtby, and Frederick Anderson.

I don't know what the transition would be like points-wise, but I know that it's not going to be easy in terms of physicality and less space to create magic.

I'd like him to come over to Abby, but his first year will probably be akin to Reinhart's in terms of struggling to get points.

[PeteMoss]

He's going to have to come over at some point and learn the North American game. He's of the age where most North American prospects play in the AHL, I'd bring him over... even if he struggles its a year of development.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

To be completely honest, I just can't see him keeping up with the AHL play. I know he's playing against men over in Finland, but he's not playing against 6'4" aggressive monsters and borderline NHL goalies. The AHL is offensively stifling and he's an offensive player.

I guess we'll see what happens with him.

I was never high on Granlund, but his brother Mikael managed to produce offensively in the AHL. On rare occasions you have offensive players (usually playmakers) who are better in the NHL than in the AHL because they need players who have some sort of offensive skill, but most of the time, offensive players who have any hope of producing offensively in the NHL are capable of producing offensively in the AHL. So I'm not too worried. Granlund needs to adjust to the North American game and if he can't find a way past the slow, plodding, 6'4" aggressive monsters and score on borderline NHL goalies, he has no chance of getting past the fast, hard-hitting 200+ pound wrecking balls and score on NHL goalies.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by FAN

I was never high on Granlund, but his brother Mikael managed to produce offensively in the AHL. On rare occasions you have offensive players (usually playmakers) who are better in the NHL than in the AHL because they need players who have some sort of offensive skill, but most of the time, offensive players who have any hope of producing offensively in the NHL are capable of producing offensively in the AHL. So I'm not too worried. Granlund needs to adjust to the North American game and if he can't find a way past the slow, plodding, 6'4" aggressive monsters and score on borderline NHL goalies, he has no chance of getting past the fast, hard-hitting 200+ pound wrecking balls and score on NHL goalies.

Markus Granlund is a shade of his brother, Mikael, who has exceptional hockey IQ. Unless his development takes huge strides I doubt he will ever even make it in the NHL.

[timbit]

Both the Granlunds have high IQs....Mikael's is higher. The problem both will have at the NHL level is their foot speed and overall quickness. Great stick skills but very marginal foot speed and size.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by timbit

Both the Granlunds have high IQs....Mikael's is higher. The problem both will have at the NHL level is their foot speed and overall quickness. Great stick skills but very marginal foot speed and size.

Combined with his hockey sense, I think Mikael is quick enough for the NHL. He has good lateral agility which is what's important for a player like him. From my limited viewings of him he's not afraid of playing in traffic. His brother Marcus is obviously not in the same class of prospect and his numbers reflect that. The hockey sense isn't as good and he's no where near the playmaker his brother is. The scoutings reports I've read of Marcus suggests he's afraid of physical play so that could be a big thing holding him back.

[HitterD]

I have not seen Granlund play save for the odd shift in the WJC, but a guy with "marginal footspeed and size" would be a guy like Hudler. Comparable at all? I realize hudler might be an exception but I'd be pretty thrilled if Granlund could become a skilled 2nd or 3rd liner for the flames

[Saqe]

Markus isn´t even close to Mikael and it´s not only hockey IQ. Mikael dominated FEL before he came over and probably would dominate in AHL if he played there consistantly (obviously he needs time to adjust to the physicality and game speed in the nhl still). Markus hasn´t been anything special after his brother left his side and doesn´t have any of the upside that Mikael has at this stage. I just don´t see him making it.

[Stampede2TheCup]

I'm sort of impartial about whether he plays in the AHL or in Finland next season because both have their upsides and downsides. Sometimes it's better for guys to be at a slightly lower level to get the right ice time and to gain confidence just like Backlund did during the lockout. On the other hand it's obviously often beneficial to give them a push to the higher level.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Markus isn´t even close to Mikael and it´s not only hockey IQ. Mikael dominated FEL before he came over and probably would dominate in AHL if he played there consistantly (obviously he needs time to adjust to the physicality and game speed in the nhl still). Markus hasn´t been anything special after his brother left his side and doesn´t have any of the upside that Mikael has at this stage. I just don´t see him making it.

I am not the biggest Markus Granlund fan out there either, but I absolutely hate it when he is continuously compared to his brother. The fact is that he has produced either better or comparable results to players like Armia and Teravainen at every level of hockey in Finland. I find it amusing that you (and many others) discredit the he was the second leading scorer on his team in a professional league at the age of 19 as well. In addition to that nearly every single player on HIFK significantly decreased in production this year including the likes of Ville Peltonen who has been an extremely consistent scorer at that level.

If you want to compare him to Mikael atleast acknowledge the fact that he is a slightly better skater, is more of a pest, and posseses a better shot. He does not have the elite level hockey sense or stick skills that his brother does, but he does potentially hold attributes that may lead to more success at a different level of play.

He will need to work on his first step, and make a large commitment to his 200 foot game if he wants to be a succesful NHL player but to write him off because he does not posses the high end skills of his brother is ignorant in my estimation.

[MyFlamesFirst]

Just listened to this interview. If you haven't listened yet I would suggest you do. I gained a little bit of insight into how the flames management think. Definitely took more out of this interview in comparison to others.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by timbit

Both the Granlunds have high IQs....Mikael's is higher. The problem both will have at the NHL level is their foot speed and overall quickness. Great stick skills but very marginal foot speed and size.

Mikael's footspeed has improved. Markus is a bit faster than Mikael was. He's also not that similar to him in playstyle so the comparison isn't necessarily helpful. Markus doesn't have Mikael's vision or playmaking or stickhandling, he projects to be more of a goal scorer or all around offensive player. His type isn't as clearly defined as Mikael's, but he's more of a trigger man than his older brother who is a playmaker.

Size is an issue for both. I don't expect skating to be a problem. But I would drop the comparison with his brother altogether.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I read it as a snarky comment. My mistake.
[...]

Snarky or not, it's not an unfair question to ask. Sometimes it's surprising how little we've actually watched the prospects we develop strong opinions about.

Like I said, if a 20-21 year-old forward with his talent can't even keep up in the AHL, then I don't think that player was worth a second round pick. It's not out of the question that there will be struggles or changes to his playstyle, but look at his brother or Sami Vatanen or whoever, even small players perform pretty much on the same level or better in the AHL as they do in Europe.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Markus isn´t even close to Mikael and it´s not only hockey IQ. Mikael dominated FEL before he came over and probably would dominate in AHL if he played there consistantly (obviously he needs time to adjust to the physicality and game speed in the nhl still). Markus hasn´t been anything special after his brother left his side and doesn´t have any of the upside that Mikael has at this stage. I just don´t see him making it.

It's not fair to suggest that his game was seriously affected by his brother leaving. His team was affected so in that sense everyone playing there was, but Markus simply continued to play his game. Nothing changed in the way he plays but his team was very troubled overall. Both seasons he had trouble scoring at the start and then found his groove later. After the U20 he was even promoted to first line center on his team.

Of course facts are facts and a prospect like him is more likely not to have a significant NHL career, but that's just percentages and maybe we don't even need to bring that up particularly. You don't have to be dismissive about his talent or achievements. Just wait and see how he develops.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by HitterD

I have not seen Granlund play save for the odd shift in the WJC, but a guy with "marginal footspeed and size" would be a guy like Hudler. Comparable at all? I realize hudler might be an exception but I'd be pretty thrilled if Granlund could become a skilled 2nd or 3rd liner for the flames

Not really comparable and I think Markus is a stronger skater than Hudler. Mikael is more of a Hudler type although Minnesota of course hopes he'll be compared more to Marc Savard than Jiri Hudler.

I don't know if Mikael will be in the lineup against Calgary tonight, but if he is, we can judge his footspeed then - there's no reason to expect that Markus will be slower than his older brother.

Don't know who would be comparable. I will say this: Markus is clearly better than Juuso Puustinen was. Good old Puusy.

To pick a Flames player, I could say that I see a bit of Cammalleri in him, if you're not offended by comparing him to a more talented player.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Henry, how have you seen the players in question so much to formulate such a concrete opinion?

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by New Era

Henry, how have you seen the players in question so much to formulate such a concrete opinion?

I believe Henry lives in Finland.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

I believe Henry lives in Finland.

Yeah. I don't follow the league here that much, and I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert, but if you're a hockey fan in Finland you of course see these players here and there over the years and hear local discussions on them. It's tough not to form opinions on many of the high profile prospects, although there are some who I don't comment on at all.