Valeri Nichushkin Discussion

[Hair bleach and Vodka]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I'd gladly take him with our Blues 1st rounder if he was still on the board. We could very well end up with both players and be able to offer them ice time rigt away.

Baertschi - Barkov - Nichushkin

That line on paper looks to have a lot of young high end skill, can't wait for draft day.

Aye ya ya dios mio! That would be amazing. I'm over the thought of us grabbing MacKinnon.. just don't see him dropping to where we need him to be. Barkov would be a great consolation prize. As far as Nichushkin is concerned, I've been super excited about us possibly taking a chance with him.

This is going to be one hell of an exciting draft. I'm going to make sure I have brownies, beer, and the entire day off.. cell phone shut off.. no chance I get called into work hahaha.

[dammage79]

Here is a question. Is there anyone in next years draft that appears to have a higher upside than Nichushkin now? Can the re-build be expedited faster by potentially trading next years first for a shot at Nichushkin and say Barkov/Lindholm?

Does a top ten picking team in this years draft bite on the thought of having another lotto pick next year? Would the Flames have to add the PITT pick or StL pick as well? Roster player? What would it take?

I ask this because I see something intangible about picking two of these players in this draft and the knowledge that next years first would be a year away from playing in the NHL, Nichushkin would arrive about the same time as next years pick would.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Here is a question. Is there anyone in next years draft that appears to have a higher upside than Nichushkin now? Can the re-build be expedited faster by potentially trading next years first for a shot at Nichushkin and say Barkov/Lindholm?

Does a top ten picking team in this years draft bite on the thought of having another lotto pick next year? Would the Flames have to add the PITT pick or StL pick as well? Roster player? What would it take?

I ask this because I see something intangible about picking two of these players in this draft and the knowledge that next years first would be a year away from playing in the NHL, Nichushkin would arrive about the same time as next years pick would.

This team cannot be trading its own firsts. Players and the other firsts, ok. Our own? Tempting too much fate.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Hair bleach and Vodka

Aye ya ya dios mio! That would be amazing. I'm over the thought of us grabbing MacKinnon.. just don't see him dropping to where we need him to be. Barkov would be a great consolation prize. As far as Nichushkin is concerned, I've been super excited about us possibly taking a chance with him.

This is going to be one hell of an exciting draft. I'm going to make sure I have brownies, beer, and the entire day off.. cell phone shut off.. no chance I get called into work hahaha.

Save a brownie or 2 for me!

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by nik-

This team cannot be trading its own firsts. Players and the other firsts, ok. Our own? Tempting too much fate.

Agreed. My dream draft this year is to grab Barkov with our first, and Nichuskin with maybe the Flyers pick if we could move up. However, our first next year would be off the table. Next year is a full 82 game schedule, and we won't see the bunching up of teams as we do this year. With Kipper gone, there is no reason why our first next year shouldn't be top 3.

This probably won't be popular, but if we could snag the Philly pick by trading the Pitts pick and a third, for Phillys first and Bryzgalov(full contract) do you do it? This would obviously be dependant on Philly ownership not willing to buy him out.

[Enoch Root]

I agree that it is likely to very likely that our pick next year is top 3. No way we should trade that to try and cut corners on the rebuild

[kn]

I've very wary of drafting Russians. Maybe they all don't have the attitude of the players we've seen in the NHL but the fact that they can hold the KHL as a hammer over the organization (coaching, assignment, contracts, etc.) just seems like it's not worth the trouble.

All that being said, I think he is elite. That combination of size and skill is rare and he made Jones, the consensus #1, look silly in that highlight package on the first page.

If you draft BPA, ignoring everything else, an argument could be made that he's #1.

As a Flames fan, I'd be worried if he's our first selection but man, the talent is undeniable.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by kn

I've very wary of drafting Russians. Maybe they all don't have the attitude of the players we've seen in the NHL but the fact that they can hold the KHL as a hammer over the organization (coaching, assignment, contracts, etc.) just seems like it's not worth the trouble.

All that being said, I think he is elite. That combination of size and skill is rare and he made Jones, the consensus #1, look silly in that highlight package on the first page.

If you draft BPA, ignoring everything else, an argument could be made that he's #1.

As a Flames fan, I'd be worried if he's our first selection but man, the talent is undeniable.

Based on what? ISS is the only rating I have seen that has him in the top 3

The only time any of us saw him was in the WJC and, while he was very good, he didn't look anything like Drouin or Jones - or Barkov for that matter. Sure, MacKinnon had a quiet tournament, but there is plenty of evidence to support MacKinnon.

I have been keen on Nichushkin since the juniors if he were to fall to our second pick. But this recent love for all the Russians (not saying by you) is baffling. It seems to me there is a late push for Russian players each year (followed by regret all too often)

[ignite09]

One thing tha hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that he actually was planning on playing in the CHL at 16. He unfortunatly had a hernia injury diagnosed 8 days before he was planning on coming over, and wasn't sure how he would be handled in the CHL. Thus he stayed where he was comfortable, and eventually signed the three year deal. Now does a guy who planned on comming over at 16 really seem like the kind of guy who wouldn't come over at 20?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by ignite09

One thing tha hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that he actually was planning on playing in the CHL at 16. He unfortunatly had a hernia injury diagnosed 8 days before he was planning on coming over, and wasn't sure how he would be handled in the CHL. Thus he stayed where he was comfortable, and eventually signed the three year deal. Now does a guy who planned on comming over at 16 really seem like the kind of guy who wouldn't come over at 20?

With Feaster's "luck" what do you think would end up happening..

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Yoho

With Feaster's "luck" what do you think would end up happening..

His drafting over the past two years has been pretty good IMO.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ignite09

One thing tha hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that he actually was planning on playing in the CHL at 16. He unfortunatly had a hernia injury diagnosed 8 days before he was planning on coming over, and wasn't sure how he would be handled in the CHL. Thus he stayed where he was comfortable, and eventually signed the three year deal. Now does a guy who planned on comming over at 16 really seem like the kind of guy who wouldn't come over at 20?

It's not that simple though.

It's easy to say they want to play in the NHL.

But when things aren't going well, when they run into a coach that isn't giving them the icetime they think they deserve, suddenly there is the league at home dangling big dough in their eyes.

[3 Justin 3]

I thought next years pick may be top 3, but I really don't think so anymore.

Unless the East decides to actually play hockey, they'll all be terrible for a long time.

If you have 2 Staals, Skinner, Semin and you are still a bottom 3 team, then you are hooped for eternity.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's not that simple though.

It's easy to say they want to play in the NHL.

But when tings aren't going wll, when they run into a coach that isn't giving them the icetime they think they deserve, suddenly there is the league at home dangling big dough in their eyes.

OK, honest question. How much dough are they actually getting? One source I read said it was slightly above an ELC level. Are we saying Nichushkin will be choosing between 2 mil. in the KHL vs the ELC here, or are we saying 6+ mil. vs the ELC here.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ignite09

OK, honest question. How much dough are they actually getting? One source I read said it was slightly above an ELC level. Are we saying Nichushkin will be choosing between 2 mil. in the KHL vs the ELC here, or are we saying 6+ mil. vs the ELC here.

I am not talking about his current contract vs his potential ELC

And the average contract in the KHL isn't great

However, when they think they can lure a big name, they seem quite prepared to dangle stupid money in front of them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

I thought next years pick may be top 3, but I really don't think so anymore.

Unless the East decides to actually play hockey, they'll all be terrible for a long time.

If you have 2 Staals, Skinner, Semin and you are still a bottom 3 team, then you are hooped for eternity.

They will be a completely different team with Ward back between the pipes

Florida will be better too. And there is no reason to think that the Bolts won't as well.

The Avs? They should be. Edmonton?

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am not talking about his current contract vs his potential ELC

And the average contract in the KHL isn't great

However, when they think they can lure a big name, they seem quite prepared to dangle stupid money in front of them.

That's what I'm talking about. In two years, when he is offered an ELC with max bonuses, how much more are some of you expecting the KHL too offer him?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ignite09

That's what I'm talking about. In two years, when he is offered an ELC with max bonuses, how much more are some of you expecting the KHL too offer him?

But you're missing the point. The risk isn't that they offer more in two years (well that's part of the risk).

The risk is that if things aren't going well here - at any time - that they will try to lure him back.

As for your question specifically - they would know exactly what the ELC is and thus probably offer a little more (if they thought he was a name draw worth enticng)

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But you're missing the point. The risk isn't that they offer more in two years (well that's part of the risk).

The risk is that if things aren't going well here - at any time - that they will try to lure him back.

As for your question specifically - they would know exactly what the ELC is and thus probably offer a little more (if they thought he was a name draw worth enticng)

Fair enough, I just consider him good enough that the whole "not going well here" aspect won't come into play. He could probably come over next year based on his skills, add another two years of development in a mens league and he will be more than ready IMO. Also, like some other top end Russians, I'm sure he's more than aware that once the ELC contract is done, the potential earnings over here will dwarf what he could make in the KHL.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Fair enough, I just consider him good enough that the whole "not going well here" aspect won't come into play. He could probably come over next year based on his skills, add another two years of development in a mens league and he will be more than ready IMO. Also, like some other top end Russians, I'm sure he's more than aware that once the ELC contract is done, the potential earnings over here will dwarf what he could make in the KHL.

You may well be right - and I agree that he has huge potential.

Re top end salaries though, some contracts in the K are huge. Isn't Radulov earning something like $9M. And it was rumoured that they offered Kovalchuk and Ovechkin crazy money to stay after the lockout.

Bottom line is that it is a risk, no matter what the player says in interviews