Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Mith]

I think they'll lose a few down the way and drop a couple spots in to 5th or so. That still lets them lock up a good player.

Also I still secretly think that karma will reward the flames the lottery or something. *Blind faith*

[ClubFlames]

I see them picking 5th and getting Lindholm. No way we drop down far enough to grab Mackinnon or Drouin. With what I have read about Lindholm, he is a very solid 2 way player - kind of like a Backstrom but more physical and I would be pretty happy with that.

With our other picks I would love for us to grab Valentin Zykov with the Blues pick and Madison Bowey.

[FlameZilla]

Some people are forgetting that some of these teams we've leapfrogged have different priorities & needs. A lot of teams have needs on the blue line and for every Nurse, Pullock & Ristolainen that is picked one of our coveted forwards drops into our grasp. Based on the BPA idea, I've seen Nurse listed top 5, Pulock & Risto listed top 10. Someone will take a flyer on the Russian 'Schkinner. Shinkaruk is listed top 10 many places & Craig Button has G Zachary Fucale in the top 10 (an opinion I hope he does not share with Todd).

[Lanny_McDonald]

This draft was shaping up to be a big step toward a quick turn around, but now it's looking like an opportunity lost. The key to the quick turn around was grabbing the top end player with superstar potential who would step in this year or next and contribute immediately. Looks more and more like the Flames have played themselves out of contention for a franchise player. This team just can't do anything right. Three more picks that will be projects with a delivery date of three to five years. Sigh.

[albertGQ]

Is Mohanan a good comparable to Mike Richards? Good two way center?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Is Mohanan a good comparable to Mike Richards? Good two way center?

Based on some YouTube scouting he reminds me of Brendan Morrow. Not a great skater, doesn't have great hands, but finds himself in the right places to score. Appears to be a really good garbage man. Of recent picks, he reminds me of Nemisz. Quality junior player but with mobility issues that could keep him from being effective in the NHL. He's supposedly got character and is very coach able but his physical tools may not translate to the next level.

If they are thinking of picking a player with skating issues I would prefer they picked a kid with serious puck skills or with an uncanny knack for scoring off the rush. You can live with a poor skater if he is awesome in other areas, but if a player's biggest ability requires him to get into the greasy areas to be successful, and he can't get to those areas with regularity because of his skating, then you have a problem. I see a problem with Monahan. I think he has Greg Nemisz stench all over him.

[bax]

Originally Posted by New Era

Based on some YouTube scouting he reminds me of Brendan Morrow. Not a great skater, doesn't have great hands, but finds himself in the right places to score. Appears to be a really good garbage man. Of recent picks, he reminds me of Nemisz. Quality junior player but with mobility issues that could keep him from being effective in the NHL. He's supposedly got character and is very coach able but his physical tools may not translate to the next level.

If they are thinking of picking a player with skating issues I would prefer they picked a kid with serious puck skills or with an uncanny knack for scoring off the rush. You can live with a poor skater if he is awesome in other areas, but if a player's biggest ability requires him to get into the greasy areas to be successful, and he can't get to those areas with regularity because of his skating, then you have a problem. I see a problem with Monahan. I think he has Greg Nemisz stench all over him.

No way, Nemisz had his point totals inflated because he played on an incredibly stacked Windsor team. Monahan plays on one of the worst teams in the OHL and still produces. He is the engine of that team, not a by product.

[albertGQ]

Well, if we're picking 7th I think Monahan would be who I'd pick

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by bax

No way, Nemisz had his point totals inflated because he played on an incredibly stacked Windsor team. Monahan plays on one of the worst teams in the OHL and still produces. He is the engine of that team, not a by product.

I don't care about how many points the guy scores. Points don't determine your ability to play in the NHL. Please address his physical abilities. Does he have the tools to play professional hockey? From what I have seen I have my doubts. He isn't a good skater and his hands are really really slow. All of his moves are long sweeping moves, not the short quick ones you need in the NHL where time and space get compressed because of the tempo of the game. What he does works at the junior level, but does he have the ability to get better in the areas where his game working at the NHL level? Can he do things at speed? Based on his lack of speed and need for space to make his moves I'm not certain of that.

[Henry Fool]

I think people have gotten a bit too greedy over the draft pick and started to think that there are couple of great picks and then a bunch of disappointing consolation prizes.

Even if they pick outside the top-3 or top-4, they're going to get a fantastic prospect. Someone like Lindholm could have as much upside as anyone in the draft and would instantly become the best forward prospect the Flames have had in a very long time.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Well, if we're picking 7th I think Monahan would be who I'd pick

Why? What does Monahan do that makes him worth the investment? The more I see of him the less I like him. What does he do well that would have you invest that top 10 pick in him?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I think people have gotten a bit too greedy over the draft pick and started to think that there are couple of great picks and then a bunch of disappointing consolation prizes.

Even if they pick outside the top-3 or top-4, they're going to get a fantastic prospect. Someone like Lindholm could have as much upside as anyone in the draft and would instantly become the best forward prospect the Flames have had in a very long time.

I like Lindholm. Has impressive puck skills and does things at speed. At first I saw a player who was an open ice guy, using the big sheet of ice to his advantage. But after watching him some more he does so many positive things with the puck, and at speed, that I think he could adjust to the North American game. I agree on your assessment of where he would be skill wise with the Flames. Very skilled player that really fills a need for the hockey club. He's a guy that you invest a top 10 pick in. He could be a game breaker.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why? What does Monahan do that makes him worth the investment? The more I see of him the less I like him. What does he do well that would have you invest that top 10 pick in him?

By the sounds of it, he does almost everything very well.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/...yer-profile-6/

Monahan has all the tools you’d want in a centre. He is big and powerful, with ideal NHL size. His stickhandling is very good, and he protects the puck well. He is able to make plays, off the rush, in the cycle game, and get in quickly with a strong and aggressive forecheck. Monahan drives the net hard, and gets to the dirty areas, where he can use soft hands to score goals. He also has a very good wrist shot, and a quick release. His passing skills and vision make him a great playmaker, and he is able to make his linemates better.

No offense, but by your own admission your knowledge about this player is a product of "youtube scouting". He has been ranked by the professional scouting network ISS in the top-ten for the upcoming draft. I suspect that have a pretty good handle on what makes him a special player, even if you can't see it through an accumulation of youtube clips.

I think that I would also personally prefer Lindholm, but this is no slight to Monohan. If the Flames do end up drafting Monohan, he will instantly be their top prospect.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No offense, but by your own admission your knowledge about this player is a product of "youtube scouting". He has been ranked by the professional scouting network ISS in the top-ten for the upcoming draft. I suspect that have a pretty good handle on what makes him a special player, even if you can't see it through an accumulation of youtube clips.

I think that I would also personally prefer Lindholm, but this is no slight to Monohan. If the Flames do end up drafting Monohan, he will instantly be their top prospect.

No offense taken. I stated I had only done the YouTube scouting routine, which is less than scientific and usually ends up in some poor judgements. I really want to know more about this kid and whether he is worth the investment. You'll have to excuse my skepticism as I have seen way too many poor decisions made on players because they scored a lot of points, especially guys that didn't do much of the work but managed to finish the play. I just observed some areas in his game that seem problematic. Watching Monahan and Lindholm back-to-back really makes Monahan look bad. Lindholm does everything at speed. Monahan not so much. The NHL is a speed game. I just question if Monahan has the physical ability to play at the next level.

Just a question, but who is Ben Kerr and lastwordonsports.com? Are they reliable or are they one of those sites where "guys in their underwear living in their parent's basement" are churning out content? Based on this report the guy is a keeper, but how valid is this opinion? I also will say that it doesn't matter who is drafted first by the Flames, he will immediately become the Flames best prospect, at least in the fans eyes. That's the nature of the drafting game and the nature of expectations. Greg Nemisz was once our top ranked prospect as well, even if it was for just a week or two after the draft.

[PeterJMoss]

Monahan will be an nhl player. But he's not going to be an elite guy. If the flames pick him, they should return him to juniors and not rush him up.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't care about how many points the guy scores. Points don't determine your ability to play in the NHL. Please address his physical abilities. Does he have the tools to play professional hockey? From what I have seen I have my doubts. He isn't a good skater and his hands are really really slow. All of his moves are long sweeping moves, not the short quick ones you need in the NHL where time and space get compressed because of the tempo of the game. What he does works at the junior level, but does he have the ability to get better in the areas where his game working at the NHL level? Can he do things at speed? Based on his lack of speed and need for space to make his moves I'm not certain of that.

LOL, you sure thou didn't come across an actual Nemisz video? Cause that doesn't describe Monahan at all.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by $ven27

LOL, you sure thou didn't come across an actual Nemisz video? Cause that doesn't describe Monahan at all.

Check them out for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8P00ymZXoc

Everything done with tons of space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9RVNx_0cgQ

Look at how many of these highlights had him as the finisher just off the edge of the crease. Garbage man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJXm5H9vUw

Much of the same. Finishing off the work of someone else at the edge of the crease and then a wide sweeping move to score the 2nd goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEI0mV0TmQ8

Just found this one. Some good stuff from the scouts, but they mention the same concern I have about his skating. The one guy seems to think it is something that can be fixed, which is a positive.

I guess it would be easy to take what is said by the likes of Craig Button, Bob MacKenizie and Pierre Maguire as gospel, but I'm a lot more skeptical of these snake oil salesmen after years of listening to them pontificate in favor of certain players only to watch them bust hard. I think that its better to discuss these things and get an idea of where people are coming from on these kids. These are the observations I have and the consistencies I see in the very limited film I have seen on him. I am readily admitting that. I am asking people that have seen him a lot to comment on whether these observations are problematic or could hold him back. If he is a long term project because of these issues I would prefer we stay away from him.

I loved this video too. It's kind of exactly what Ken King talks about when he takes shots at guys in their underwear living in their parent's basement. Really hammers home the point that a lot of the information out there may not be as trustworthy as some like to think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8z8h4X7JSQ

[jessnuts]

Odd to question the legitimacy of someone discussing hockey on a private website, when we are all regestered at a public forum to discuss hockey. Is he a real source? Perhaps not, but likely he's more in the know then a lot of people on CP...like me for instance. I hope you understand that this is an opinion/discussion based website and they're are all sorts of levels of fan and knowledge here. Also, as an aside, I am literally in a basement in my underwear posting this (though admittedly my own and not a parents)

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by New Era

Check them out for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8P00ymZXoc

Everything done with tons of space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9RVNx_0cgQ

Look at how many of these highlights had him as the finisher just off the edge of the crease. Garbage man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJXm5H9vUw

Much of the same. Finishing off the work of someone else at the edge of the crease and then a wide sweeping move to score the 2nd goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEI0mV0TmQ8

Just found this one. Some good stuff from the scouts, but they mention the same concern I have about his skating. The one guy seems to think it is something that can be fixed, which is a positive.

I guess it would be easy to take what is said by the likes of Craig Button, Bob MacKenizie and Pierre Maguire as gospel, but I'm a lot more skeptical of these snake oil salesmen after years of listening to them pontificate in favor of certain players only to watch them bust hard. I think that its better to discuss these things and get an idea of where people are coming from on these kids. These are the observations I have and the consistencies I see in the very limited film I have seen on him. I am readily admitting that. I am asking people that have seen him a lot to comment on whether these observations are problematic or could hold him back. If he is a long term project because of these issues I would prefer we stay away from him.

I loved this video too. It's kind of exactly what Ken King talks about when he takes shots at guys in their underwear living in their parent's basement. Really hammers home the point that a lot of the information out there may not be as trustworthy as some like to think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8z8h4X7JSQ

I really don't see your argument. I watched the video's and I don't see anything alarming about his goals/assists, he isn't a flashy guy. Btw, everything was done with "tons of space" because on that second video he's on a larger ice surface, haha. But it's silly to try to evaluate a player based on youtube clips to begin with.

[Yoho]

I could see NJ Devils slide into the bottom 6-7 mix soon with pretty tough games to end the season NYR,Mont.,Pitt, NYR.
They are down 2-0 at home to Florida in the first period today.

Man the fall for picks is insane!