The Drive for 30th

[polak]

We need to draft a blue chip. Feaster needs to find a way to trade down if we don't end up there ourselves.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

However I don't believe a GM or a coach ever tells a team to go out and take it easy and lose games on purpose.

Someone on TSN last night, it might have been Dreger, commented that late in the 2003 season, Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford told his coaching staff they weren't going to get any help from him. No merit call-ups from the AHL. Nothing. And they finished last overall and drafted Staal. Dreger implied that Rutherford was doing the same thing again now.

I don't think coaches or players ever tank. But GMs do.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Someone on TSN last night, it might have been Dreger, commented that late in the 2003 season, Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford told his coaching staff they weren't going to get any help from him. No merit call-ups from the AHL. Nothing. And they finished last overall and drafted Staal. Dreger implied that Rutherford was doing the same thing again now.

I don't think coaches or players ever tank. But GMs do.

Yeah I mentioned this. That is just more evidence that it does in fact go on and likely more than we think. I believe the Avalanche management group has been tanking just the same as the Hurricanes and even the Predators have thrown their hat in the ring. I hate it but at the end of the day I understand why they are doing it and why it's part of the business.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I just wanted to extend a big F U to Carolina, Nashville, and Tampa. Are you f'ing kidding me? All those teams were in playoff spots at some point in the season. And now, Nashville decides to lose 7 in a row? Carolina has 2 wins in their last 10? Tampa has freaking Stamkos ffs. Screw off and let us get our top 3 pick. Seriously, gtfo.

The biggest F bomb should go to Carolina.. Eric Staal, Jordan Staal, Alexander Semin, Jeff Skinner & Cam Ward ! Pathetic that they can suck that bad!

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Someone on TSN last night, it might have been Dreger, commented that late in the 2003 season, Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford told his coaching staff they weren't going to get any help from him. No merit call-ups from the AHL. Nothing. And they finished last overall and drafted Staal. Dreger implied that Rutherford was doing the same thing again now.

I don't think coaches or players ever tank. But GMs do.

I certainly buy that, but players need good stats to get better contacts. Coaches need to look out for their next contract. Why would they want to hurt their chances?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Miniac

The biggest F bomb should go to Carolina.. Eric Staal, Jordan Staal, Alexander Semin, Jeff Skinner & Cam Ward ! Pathetic that they can suck that bad!

Actually the reason they've been this bad is because they haven't had Ward, hes been injured half the season. Goaltending is still the most important position in the NHL and the success of CBJ and the failure of TB and CAR highlights that nicely.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I just wanted to extend a big F U to Carolina, Nashville, and Tampa. Are you f'ing kidding me? All those teams were in playoff spots at some point in the season. And now, Nashville decides to lose 7 in a row? Carolina has 2 wins in their last 10? Tampa has freaking Stamkos ffs. Screw off and let us get our top 3 pick. Seriously, gtfo.

The Eastern Conference is an embarrassment to the NHL. Still can't believe those guys are going to get better talent then us when we need it more than they do. #### them.

[Mith]

For what it's worth, there are 5 games left and the flames are only 1 point out of drafting higher, still time for other teams to pick up a few points and I think it'll shake out in the end that the flames are in the top 5.

Also, the flames could win a karma bomb lottery and end up picking #1 overall. I think it would feel hella rewarding for the kids to win a bunch of games at the end of the season and show the merit of the team, and for that to be rewarded by the #1 pick.

[Dienasty]

Easy to fix the issue and increase the value of signing veterans, whomever finishes 9th (best team to miss playoffs) gets the highest odds in the lottery, who ever finishes last has the worst odds of the non playoff teams.

It is as easy as that, so then teams are motivated to perform their best all season long and it will prevent fire sales.

(Plus it prevents the BS of teams adding all rentals to turn there team from good to great without giving up any real assets)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Actually the reason they've been this bad is because they haven't had Ward, hes been injured half the season. Goaltending is still the most important position in the NHL and the success of CBJ and the failure of TB and CAR highlights that nicely.

A Flames team that were never once in a playoff spot this season went a game over .500 for the month Kipper was injured starting three AHL goaltenders and a waiver wire pickup. I'm not buying that a team that was leading their division for almost half the season could suddenly win 3 out of their last 17 games because their starting goaltender hit injured. The GM running that show knows the tanking routine well and while I don't fault them I'm not going to make excuses for that roster playing like AHL talent.

[azzarish]

Originally Posted by Kaine

This year more than any other I believe has demonstrated the extreme flaws in the current draft system. While the new CBA went a long way to fixing this (much more likely a team other than #30 will win) it's still just broken. I'm at a loss of how to go about fixing it other than randomizing draft positions for all teams that miss the playoffs. Far from ideal but it sure beats the current situation.

I can't ever remember so many teams realizing they will miss the playoffs and just going into full tank mode. Sure it happens every year with the bottom couple teams but this... I'm sorry but this is just embarrassing for the league.

It really is shocking. Carolina has lost 15 of their last 17 games, and only ONE of those 15 losses has come in overtime or a shootout. I don't care what professional league you're in, that's an abysmal record. I know they lost Ward to a long term injury, but they've still got some good players there. And to have that record?

You really can't say with any confidence that any of those teams at the bottom are going to win any more games, unless they play each other of course.

I still refuse to believe that a team would purposely tank the season. I just don't think your coach would tell you to lay off the gas because a high draft pick depended on it. That would undermine a coach's professionalism.

The frustrating part is that we know the Flames have a legitimate shot of a high draft pick, and it's being jeopardized by a host of other teams that seemingly can't win a game for love nor money.

I know my analogy may be all wrong, and those that are on the 'other' side of the fence who would rather see the Flames win every one of our remaining games have a different opinion. All I know is that a high draft pick is in the best long term interests of this team, and it also happens to coincide with a rebuild. And if the Flames lose, that allows the rebuild to take place just a little bit quicker.

If we end up picking 8th or 9th it could be the difference between getting an elite blue chip franchise player who would go a long way to turning the fortunes of this team around. He won't do it by himself but he would make the players around him a lot better.

[CaptainCrunch]

We need to rely on the providence of the Force

[TheGrimm]

OK, fleshed out my thoughts (slow day in the office)..

- Draft lottery rankings SET on trade deadline day, all 30 teams are ranked.
- Lottery takes place after the season is complete (only the bottom 16 teams compete in lotto).
- Teams can be bumped or added to lottery based on performance after deadline day, however ranking cannot change.

Looking at last years standings as of Feb 27 and at the end of the season as an example...

2 teams fell out of playoff contention, Dallas & Colorado.
2 teams worked their way into a playoff position, Washington & LA.

If the lottery was picked based on the standings as of February 27th, 2 teams would be removed from the lottery (WSH & LA) and two teams added to the lottery, COL & DAL into 15th and 16th positions.


The biggest moves UP the ranks in the bottom 16 after deadline day were Buffalo (+5 spots) followed by TB (+4), Carolina (+4) and CGY (+2)
The biggest moves DOWN the ranks were TOR (-5 spots) followed by COL (-4), DAL (-3), WPG (-2), MIN (-2), ANA (-2) and NYI (-1)
The bottom 3 teams maintained their respective positions, MTL, EDM & CBJ

Now with this, the teams that had solid runs after deadline day but don't make the playoffs really don't gain anything other than to be able to have played well and gave it everything they could. Teams that moved DOWN the ranks after deadline day would gain nothing either (unless they fell out of a playoff position) thereby removing the incentive to tank for a draft pick.

It's always possible a team can try to tank early in the season and make a push for the playoffs after deadline day, if they make it into the playoffs they will lose their lottery pick, if not, they could still draft much higher than they would have had they not tanked early.

Edit: I should mention one big caveat in that every team would have to have played the same number of games at deadline day for this to work.

[Roof-Daddy]

Purposeful or not, that is some world class tanking that the Oilers, Predators, Hurricanes and Devils are doing.

Absolutely incredible the ground the Flames have made up on those teams since earlier in the season.

[Hockey_Ninja]

If we ice the same line-up for a full season next year, no Kipper. I fully expect us to be in the running for Reinhart or Ekblad. But yeah the high end talent in this draft is better. Just sucks that we couldn't suck as much as those teams have sucked.

[Hyde]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

If we ice the same line-up for a full season next year, no Kipper. I fully expect us to be in the running for Reinhart or Ekblad. But yeah the high end talent in this draft is better. Just sucks that we couldn't suck as much as those teams have sucked.

What is it about Reinhart and Ekblad, that makes them a step below the big four for this year?

[Hemi-Cuda]

for all the talk about trying to change the draft lottery, wouldn't the simplest fix be to weight it towards teams who have never/rarely pick first? take the teams that miss the playoffs, see how many of them have had the first overall in the last 10 years and remove them from the lottery. then take the remaining teams and for every year they've missed the playoffs, they get an extra ball. reward the teams that try to compete but fail to make the playoffs continually (Flames) and make it harder for other teams to tank for a single year and nab a first overall for a "quick" rebuild

[Cowperson]

Players and coaches aren't tanking seasons. There's no motive to do so on their part unless someone can demonstrate they're getting paid under the table bonuses for sub par play and secondly, that they would be 100% compliant in keeping it quiet.

No chance.

A GM can manipulate a roster to make some strange, negative things more likely. Go ahead and make a specific case in the last two or three years.

Most probable thing is that poop happens.

All this winning by the Flames is probably helping them rescue their season ticket base while helping lower the percentage likelihood of a new franchise player. Flames owners are probably exhilarated and depressed all at the same time.

Cowperson

[Quincy Egg]

Ugh, this team can't even lose properly. Looks like the Flames are going to be getting a 2nd rate player compared to Jones/Drouin/Mackinnon.

[Ped]

Someone could look at Calgary and make the same tanking claims - they traded Iginla and Bouwmeester and injected some kids with very little or no NHL experience onto the roster.

Without Kipper they lose last night.

Carolina is not only without Ward but have been without their backup most of the season and had Ruutu for only 11 games

Florida lost Theodore, Weiss, Weaver, Upshall, Versteeg, and Jovanovski for long stretches.

Tampa had horrendous goaltending pre-Bishop and pretty much only one line.

Colorado had Landeskog concussed and take time to return to form, and have also not had Downie for the whole year as well as ROR's holdout. Hejduk, Stastny, et al have been trending downward anyway, and they have more wins then Calgary the last little bit.