Has Redford done any good for Alberta?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

So some people here have the position that there should be no change in course, regardless of the current state of the economy? I get the impression that there are a number of people basically hoping for a complete train wreck so they can (a) say I told you so or (b) make Redford look as bad as possible.

I think either is deplorable. We all have to bear the consequences of these actions, so I just hope for the best possible outcome in the long run.

...or (C) she can't be trusted with what she says or promises. Her credibility with Albertans is shot.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Slava

We all have to bear the consequences of these actions, so I just hope for the best possible outcome in the long run.

This has pretty much been my mantra since I was old enough to understand provincial politics.

Even though I don't vote PC, being an Albertan I know that they're likely what I'll get, so one can only hold on and hope they don't #### it up too badly.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Dion

...or (C) she can't be trusted with what she says or promises. Her credibility with Albertans is shot.

I don't get it. You're hoping for a train wreck because you don't trust her?

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

So some people here have the position that there should be no change in course, regardless of the current state of the economy? I get the impression that there are a number of people basically hoping for a complete train wreck so they can (a) say I told you so or (b) make Redford look as bad as possible.

I think either is deplorable. We all have to bear the consequences of these actions, so I just hope for the best possible outcome in the long run.

I think the deplorable action was voting these jokers into office in the first place.

If the Liberals and Wildrose agreed upon anything, it was that the PC's election plan was a total joke. There was absolutely no way they could keep all their election promises.

We can only hope to showcase the duplicity in this Government so that Albertan's have a clear choice next election between sustained massive spending and increased taxes to balance the budget (Liberal/NDP) or a return to controlled spending based on existing revenues (Wildrose).

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't get it. You're hoping for a train wreck because you don't trust her?

The train wreck has already happened. Merely showing her past record and why she can't be trusted. I suppose things could get better by the next election but I don't see it with Redford as leader. I'm hoping she's replaced at the leadership convention this upcoming November. PC's have to start repairing thier image before the next election.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Dion

Redford flip-flops on campaign promises:

Flip-flopping, in itself, is not inherently good or bad.

If you move from a bad position to a better one, then flip-flopping is good.
If you move from a good position to a worse one, then flip-flopping is bad.
If you stubbornly cling to a good position, that's good.
If you stubbornly cling to a bad position, that's bad.
If your initial position is good, that's good.
If your initial position is bad, that's bad.

For example, the Conservatives should have flip-flopped on the GST cut, because it was a bad promise to make in the first place.

I don't see how the Wildrosers can criticize Redford for flip-flopping on spending, because they were advocating for the spending cuts in the first place. It doesn't make sense to criticize her for her initial position (which happened), then criticize her for reversing that position.

For me, I liked Redford overall, but did not like the teacher vote-buy. So I am happy that she reversed it. She has yet to deliver on the things that I want though, like a solid city charter and funding for municipal infrastructure (by which I mean LRT, not stadiums). I see her as having not done much at all, either positive or negative. And she clearly has had some issues with crisis management. But if the alternative would have done things that I perceive negatively, then preserving the status quo is a win.

[Minnie]

I'll take Redford every day of the week and 3x on a Sunday, over any of the rest of the pack we have to choose from (other parties/leaders). And if it's down to her or Smith, I'll take Redford over Smith 2x/day and 5x on a Sunday.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Minnie

I'll take Redford every day of the week and 3x on a Sunday, over any of the rest of the pack we have to choose from (other parties/leaders). And if it's down to her or Smith, I'll take Redford over Smith 2x/day and 5x on a Sunday.

[Tinordi]

Right wing populists are the worst. So utterly bereft of understanding public policy. Trigger for me, but the world is a complicated place while populists want to simplify it to stupefying levels.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Slava

So some people here have the position that there should be no change in course, regardless of the current state of the economy? I get the impression that there are a number of people basically hoping for a complete train wreck so they can (a) say I told you so or (b) make Redford look as bad as possible.

I think either is deplorable. We all have to bear the consequences of these actions, so I just hope for the best possible outcome in the long run.

I certainly do not hope for the worst. Although as it turns out my wishes and emotions do not affect the prosperity of this province.
I don't think there is anything wrong in taking a bit of joy in pointing out that we were lied to during the election campaign. All three opposition parties were stating that the PC projections were incredibly optimistic but Redford insisted that she was right.

As for your comment about the state of the economy, I think it would be fair if things had taken a dive since the election but it doesn't seem that way. According to the infographic the price differential hasn't changed all that much since the election.

[Minnie]

I'm sorry you don't know which fork to kill yourself with, Dion. I know which fork to kill you with, though.

I should mention that I typically wouldn't vote for the Conservatives, if I felt like I had any other option. But I don't think we have any other viable options so...*shrug*

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Right wing populists are the worst. So utterly bereft of understanding public policy. Trigger for me, but the world is a complicated place while populists want to simplify it to stupefying levels.

It all depends on where you are observing from.
I find the condescending, I-know-what-is-good-for-you attitude of some people on the left to be really grating.
I don't lump all those on the left into that category though so maybe we are both right. Some lefties are annoying but those on the right are the worst.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

As for your comment about the state of the economy, I think it would be fair if things had taken a dive since the election but it doesn't seem that way. According to the infographic the price differential hasn't changed all that much since the election.

Of course, there are factors in the economy beyond the price differential (e.g. WTI price, which has gone down ~$7 since Feb 9. I think government revenues would actually be a pretty good indicator of the overall state of the economy, given that we haven't changed our tax/royalty structures in a while.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by SebC

Of course, there are factors in the economy beyond the price differential (e.g. WTI price, which has gone down ~$7 since Feb 9. I think government revenues would actually be a pretty good indicator of the overall state of the economy, given that we haven't changed our tax/royalty structures in a while.

From where I sit in the world it looks like the oil patch is flying full steam ahead. Retail stores can't hire workers and I have more new wells and pipelines on the books than I have seen in the spring since 2008.
I suppose though that that could mean that the government revenues will pick up. I definitely see them as a lagging indicator of the state of the economy.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

From where I sit in the world it looks like the oil patch is flying full steam ahead. Retail stores can't hire workers and I have more new wells and pipelines on the books than I have seen in the spring since 2008.
I suppose though that that could mean that the government revenues will pick up. I definitely see them as a lagging indicator of the state of the economy.

So Redford could still be right about revenues? That would be kind of funny.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Well, first, thanks to Senator Davis for making sure the hidden text in my post was accurate.

But to your response, it is simply yet another promise that this government made, then broke. But I am curious to see how many lies you are willing to swallow before you guys stop circling the wagons in Redford's defence.

That's a weak argument and you know it.

Unless of course you're suggesting that governments MUST always follow through on their promise regardless of changing economic conditions.

If that's the the case, you must have been outraged when Harper increased spending in an attempt to head off a major recession.

You're better than that. At least make arguments you actually believe in, instead of making partisan potshots.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Dion

Are you assuming I wasn't?

Can you point me in the direction of the pretty pictures you posted expressing your outrage?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by dion

...or (c) she can't be trusted with what she says or promises. Her credibility with wildrose supporters is shot.

fyp

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

That's a weak argument and you know it.

Unless of course you're suggesting that governments MUST always follow through on their promise regardless of changing economic conditions.

If that's the the case, you must have been outraged when Harper increased spending in an attempt to head off a major recession.

You're better than that. At least make arguments you actually believe in, instead of making partisan potshots.

So, once again, you are arguing that Redford is simply incompetent instead of a liar?

All opposition parties could predict that REDford PC's election platform was a disaster, yet you claim she just didn't know better, and what's happening isn't her fault.

Interesting.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

So, once again, you are arguing that Redford is simply incompetent instead of a liar?

All opposition parties could predict that REDford PC's election platform was a disaster, yet you claim she just didn't know better, and what's happening isn't her fault.

Interesting.

"Incompetence" and "disaster" seem to overstatements, at best.

Its also interesting to note that all other parties (as well as many posters here) predicted that WRP's election platform was also a "disaster". The difference between the WRP and the PCs is that one was elected, is making real decisions, and is therefore being scrutinized, whereas the other was not, is doing nothing, and is therefore not being scrutinized.