04-17-2013, 08:25 AM
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#1581
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameZilla
Ryan Kujawinski's stock has dropped BIG TIME this year. Last season he seemed a lock to go top 10, in October Craig Button had him going in the first round and now he looks like he'll go in the 4th round.
Big Centreman, comparisons to Rick Nash (in playing style)... Anyone know why his stock has dropped? Might be a good sleeper pick with our 3rd/4th rounder.
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After his trade to Kingston last year, he became a PPG player in the second half of the season, and really looked like he'd be the centrepiece the Fronts could base their rebuild around.
He came out of the gate this year and was incredible, put up huge numbers, and even won OHL player of the week for the first week of the season.
Then it all went down hill, he just didn't progress as much as many (myself included) thought he would. The hockey IQ and effort levels are being questionned now. And you never want to see a prospect stagnate the way he did.
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04-17-2013, 08:29 AM
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#1582
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameZilla
Would anyone be really disappointed if we used the Pittsburgh pick on Zachary Fucale? Provided we got 2 solid skaters with the other 1st rounders I don't see much of a downside...
The question is: is he THAT good, or does he just look good because he's on a stacked team? Button says he's a game-changer due to his mentality. We could use a goalie with an indestructible, winning mental attitude.
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I'd be a bit upset. Don't really like goalies with first rounders and we've got a huge variety of goalies. Gillies is looking like a real good one. I guess though it depends a bit who's still left on the board.
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04-17-2013, 08:33 AM
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#1583
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkmaster
I'd be a bit upset. Don't really like goalies with first rounders and we've got a huge variety of goalies.
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I agree. I hope the Flames have learnt a lesson from Krahn and Irving, you just don't use your 1st rounder on a goalie.
I wonder if they will even pick a goalie at some point this year, it's already pretty crowded in the system, especially now that we have acquired Berra. If they pick one, Brossoit's backup Tristan Jarry would be an interesting choice in the 3rd round.
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04-17-2013, 08:36 AM
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#1584
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#1 Goaltender
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As there seems to be a consensus that the big 4 picks are Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin and Barkov and that the Flames probably have a chance to get the 4th overall pick at best, I definately see Barkov coming over to Calgary... if the pick is outside the top four I hope itīs Monahan. A center please
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04-17-2013, 08:41 AM
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#1585
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe
As there seems to be a consensus that the big 4 picks are Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin and Barkov and that the Flames probably have a chance to get the 4th overall pick at best, I definately see Barkov coming over to Calgary... if the pick is outside the top four I hope itīs Monahan. A center please
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I have a feeling that Barkov is the guy they are targeting anyway. Craig Button has really been pushing him and he probably gets his scouting info from Tod.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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04-17-2013, 08:46 AM
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#1586
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
I have a feeling that Barkov is the guy they are targeting anyway. Craig Button has really been pushing him and he probably gets his scouting info from Tod.
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Yeah so Iīve heard. Also probably the most realistic pick that will be available for the Flames.
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04-17-2013, 08:47 AM
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#1587
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2006
Exp:  
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If we are picking 4th or 5th I want Barkov or Lindholm.
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04-17-2013, 08:56 AM
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#1588
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo22
EDMONTON COILERS: something special. They have given up trying and have a tough schedule left = bad combination.
at COL L
vs ANA L
vs ANA L
vs CHI L
at MIN L
vs VAN L
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Haha. Seeing a 12L to finish the season would be awesome, but unfortunate. Prefer they win all 6 and miss by 3 points, leaving much worse lottery odds and worse pick - and then optimism will once more reign supreme.... and that's so fun
Thanks for breaking in down like this. Nice work. 4th from bottom seems pretty realistic.
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04-17-2013, 09:09 AM
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#1589
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameZilla
I'll be pretty devastated if we don't finish in the bottom 7 picks. The other teams could be legitimately accused of tanking.
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No, just more committed to achieving a goal, which has been the main problem for the Calgary Flames over the past 20 years.
Quote:
As Calgary4Life points out, the top 7 comparables are very exciting:
Jones - Pronger
Mackinnon - Ovechkin
Drouin - Zetterberg
Barkov - Ron Francis
Nichushkin - Malkin
Lindholm - Forsberg
Monahan - Toews/Lemaire
Very exciting... End the season TODAY!!!
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Those comparables are a joke to be honest. Those guys are seven future hall of famers? Not a chance. I bet at least two of them bust and two more turn into middling players. More realistic comparables:
Jones - Chris Phillips - same type of hype surrounded Phillips
Mackinnon - John Tavares - more finisher than setup man
Drouin - Claude Giroux - good offensive player but not a complete game
Barkov - Ollie Jokinen - was ahead of his peers because of his size and style but was more of an early bloomer than anything
Nichushkin - Alexandr Svitov - his size and skill had scouts drooling, but he couldn't live up to the promise as his size was neutralized
Lindholm - Kristian Huselius - a player who looked great on the big sheet but had to learn to play in traffic
Monahan - Kyle Turris - more hype than he deserves or could live up to
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameZilla
Would anyone be really disappointed if we used the Pittsburgh pick on Zachary Fucale? Provided we got 2 solid skaters with the other 1st rounders I don't see much of a downside...
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Yeah, really pissed TBQH. With all the glaring holes on this team, like RW and on the blueline, if they waste another draft pick earlier than the 5th round on another goaltender I'm going to scream. We have plenty of goaltending prospects and have only so many places they can play to develop, so its time to address other areas of concern - like RW and on the blueline.
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04-17-2013, 09:14 AM
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#1590
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
No, just more committed to achieving a goal, which has been the main problem for the Calgary Flames over the past 20 years.
Those comparables are a joke to be honest. Those guys are seven future hall of famers? Not a chance. I bet at least two of them bust and two more turn into middling players. More realistic comparables:
Jones - Chris Phillips - same type of hype surrounded Phillips
Mackinnon - John Tavares - more finisher than setup man
Drouin - Claude Giroux - good offensive player but not a complete game
Barkov - Ollie Jokinen - was ahead of his peers because of his size and style but was more of an early bloomer than anything
Nichushkin - Alexandr Svitov - his size and skill had scouts drooling, but he couldn't live up to the promise as his size was neutralized
Lindholm - Kristian Huselius - a player who looked great on the big sheet but had to learn to play in traffic
Monahan - Kyle Turris - more hype than he deserves or could live up to
Yeah, really pissed TBQH. With all the glaring holes on this team, like RW and on the blueline, if they waste another draft pick earlier than the 5th round on another goaltender I'm going to scream. We have plenty of goaltending prospects and have only so many places they can play to develop, so its time to address other areas of concern - like RW and on the blueline.
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Wow, you're a bundle of laughs aren't you? I don't think I've met someone 'glass-completely-empty' before.
Those comparables are from the scouts around the league & Craig Button, not me. It has to do with playing style and not projection.
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04-17-2013, 09:21 AM
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#1591
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Regarding Jones/Chris Phillips - Button was talking about this on that podcast. Someone (from Calgary) asked what's the difference between Eric Johnson and Seth Jones. He said Jones was the best defensive prospect since Pronger and this draft was much stronger than the Phillips/Johnson drafts where they ended up first. Guys like Phillips and Johnson wouldn't have been drafted 1st if MacKinnon/Drouin were available in their drafts.
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04-17-2013, 09:25 AM
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#1592
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameZilla
Wow, you're a bundle of laughs aren't you? I don't think I've met someone 'glass-completely-empty' before.
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So you've never read anything by moon or Erick Estrada or puckluck or so on and so on and so on?
Quote:
Those comparables are from the scouts around the league & Craig Button, not me. It has to do with playing style and not projection.
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Those comparables are still a complete joke, scouts or not. Using Craig Button as your defense for posting that is also not a good defense based on his ability to select talent when he ran the Flames into the ground. These experts pick hall of famers for comparison sake when the reality is that maybe one of those players will achieve greatness. Let's try and temper the enthusiasm just a tad. I'm excited for a top pick too, but lets not get crazy. Let's not let this spin into another deadline debacle where we set expectations so high that these kids will never be able to meet them. I mean, come on. Lindholm is the next Forsberg? Monahan is the next Toews? Wow. It really doesn't take a lot to see through the pre-draft hype being built up by the talking heads.
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04-17-2013, 09:26 AM
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#1593
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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typical case of glass half full vs glass half empty.
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04-17-2013, 09:37 AM
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#1594
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cgy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo22
I posted this in the "drive for 30th" thread, but I guess it fits here as well. I took a look at the schedules of the seven teams at the bottom and tried to predict the outcome as realistically as I could think of.
FLORIDA PANTHERS: I don't expect much from them, they have 30th pretty much wrapped up.
at NYR L
at NJD L
at BOS L
vs NYR OTL
vs TOR L
at TBL OTL
COLORADO AVALANCHE: Giguere's rant has lifted them a bit, but they'll probably lose most of the games left.
vs EDM W
vs STL L
at STL L
at PHX L
vs MIN OTL
CALGARY FLAMES: tough schedule. I predict one more win, probably against Nashville.
vs DET L
vs ANA L
at MIN L
at NSH W
at STL L
at CHI L
CAROLINA HURRICANES: they have been pathetic, given their offensive depth. They have pretty much given up trying.
at WPG L
vs PHI OTL
at TBL OTL
vs NYI L
vs NYR L
at PIT L
NASHVILLE PREDATORS: shockingly bad ... 7 straight losses, 3 shutouts against during that span. I don't see them win another game.
at CHI L
vs CGY L
at DET L
at CBJ L
TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING: probably the easiest schedule, with CAR and FLA at home. I don't see them picking in the top 5.
at MTL L
vs CAR W
vs TOR L
at BOS L
vs FLA W
EDMONTON COILERS: something special. They have given up trying and have a tough schedule left = bad combination.
at COL L
vs ANA L
vs ANA L
vs CHI L
at MIN L
vs VAN L
As a result, the standings would look like that:
24 | 42 Points | Tampa Bay Lightning (19-25-4, 16 ROW)
25 | 39 Points | Edmonton Coilers (16-25-7, 14 ROW)
26 | 38 Points | Carolina Hurricanes (17-27-4, 17 ROW)
27 | 38 Points | Calgary Flames (17-27-4, 17 ROW)
28 | 38 Points | Colorado Avalanche (15-25-8, 14 ROW)
29 | 38 Points | Nashville Predators (15-25-8, 13 ROW)
30 | 34 Points | Florida Panthers (13-27-8, 10 ROW)
In that scenario, we would be ahead of Colorado and Nashville because of ROW, but behind Carolina because of goal differential. It's very close though, there's a good chance that we finish 25th, but we could also easily finish 28th or 29th.
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So what you are saying is the Pred's game is a "Must lose game" right?
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04-17-2013, 09:39 AM
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#1595
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dienasty
So what you are saying is the Pred's game is a "Must lose game" right?
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that would be a very good game to lose, yes.
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04-17-2013, 09:42 AM
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#1596
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
So you've never read anything by moon or Erick Estrada or puckluck or so on and so on and so on?
Those comparables are still a complete joke, scouts or not. Using Craig Button as your defense for posting that is also not a good defense based on his ability to select talent when he ran the Flames into the ground. These experts pick hall of famers for comparison sake when the reality is that maybe one of those players will achieve greatness. Let's try and temper the enthusiasm just a tad. I'm excited for a top pick too, but lets not get crazy. Let's not let this spin into another deadline debacle where we set expectations so high that these kids will never be able to meet them. I mean, come on. Lindholm is the next Forsberg? Monahan is the next Toews? Wow. It really doesn't take a lot to see through the pre-draft hype being built up by the talking heads.
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Perhaps it was not clear, but comparisons to Forsberg and Toews are based on their playing style alone, and not a projection of their future NHL achievements. It's usefull to know that a player plays in a style compared to so&so, especially in the case of a team that is overbalanced in certain areas &
completely lacking in others.
We all know it is likely that a solid % of these guys don't reach these lofty pre-draft expectations, but my perceived 'optimism' is based on published scouting reports, videos and draft profiles. As opposed to your bizarre expectation that each of the top 7 prospects in this draft will bust (judging by your list of comparable players - which bares little resemblance to the actual players in question). May as well not pick at all, eh New Era? The next Chris Phillips... you're having a laugh.
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04-17-2013, 09:44 AM
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#1597
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo22
typical case of glass half full vs glass half empty.
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Or is it just tempering expectations based on past events? It doesn't take a lot to reach way back into the archives and pull up clippings about how Dan Tkachuk was going to be the next Steve Yzerman or Oleg Saprykin was going to be the next Alexander Mogilny or Rico Fata was going to be the next Rico Fata (Rico is so legendary that he was comared to himself before he was drafted). Every draft these kids get compared to hall of fame players and have to live that down for the rest of their lives. I just don't think that is fair.
I think the best thing the Flames have done in years is to draft Jankowski. Completely off the board and the fans had absolutely no comparisons to hang around this kid's neck. He was just a draft pick that we had to judge based on his talent. He can develop as he needs to and no one should be disappointed because there are so little expectations on him. But now we're going to draft some poor schmuck that is going to have the weight of a hall of famer and the expectations of a franchise on his back from day one. It isn't fair to the player and it certainly isn't fair to fans. Just floating that out there.
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04-17-2013, 09:45 AM
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#1598
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
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More like glass completely full versus glass smashed into a thousand pieces and red wine soaking into the white carpet.
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04-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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#1599
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Singapore
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Mikael Backlund was compared to Mike Cammalleri in his draft year. In the same year Patrick Kane was compared to Danny Briere. It's interesting to look back but for someone who has never seen these prospects play it gives some sense as to what kind of player they are, but not necessarily what they will become.
__________________
Shot down in Flames!
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04-17-2013, 09:59 AM
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#1600
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Or is it just tempering expectations based on past events? It doesn't take a lot to reach way back into the archives and pull up clippings about how Dan Tkachuk was going to be the next Steve Yzerman or Oleg Saprykin was going to be the next Alexander Mogilny or Rico Fata was going to be the next Rico Fata (Rico is so legendary that he was comared to himself before he was drafted). Every draft these kids get compared to hall of fame players and have to live that down for the rest of their lives. I just don't think that is fair.
I think the best thing the Flames have done in years is to draft Jankowski. Completely off the board and the fans had absolutely no comparisons to hang around this kid's neck. He was just a draft pick that we had to judge based on his talent. He can develop as he needs to and no one should be disappointed because there are so little expectations on him. But now we're going to draft some poor schmuck that is going to have the weight of a hall of famer and the expectations of a franchise on his back from day one. It isn't fair to the player and it certainly isn't fair to fans. Just floating that out there.
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I'm surprised that you like the Jankowski pick, considering your favourite guy Craig Button (ran us into the ground apparently) was pushing him HARD in the weeks before the draft. I was really hoping we'd take that guy, and mostly because of the scouting reports of said Mr Button. I think it's a good pick, but there's HUGE bust potential there (especially concerning when you consider he was Button's guy).
We've been burned plenty of times with our top draft picks, so I can completely understand the need to temper expectations. It's debatable whether it's been bad scouting, bad development, bad coaching, bad luck or some perfect storm of all the above that has caused nearly all of our top picks to flop. What's funny is the Tkaczuk pick seemed to be the "safe" pick at the time! Fata and Saprykin were very off-the-board if I recall correctly.
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