RFA's - Who gets qualified/signed, who is let go?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree, I don't think he'd pass through waivers. I think you underrate his value.

And you advocate keeping Sarich over him. By your own logic Sarich is even less of a solid defenseman. He's been scratched 18/42 times, almost 50%. He is also way older and nearing the end of his career. Why would the Flames keep a much older, more fringe defenseman over Butler?

Not really seeing any logic in your stance on this one.

For the reason you just described... he's scratched 18/42 times on a bad team and older... at $2M, is someone going to take him? If not, he's stuck on your roster (#7 guy). That was Feaster's boo boo.

The way I see things, the roster has to fill out like this:

Wideman-Brodie
FILLPOSITION-Giordano
Smith-Cundari/Breen
Sarich/Butler

I'm not saying we have to dump Butler ASAP or anything, I'm just saying I can see where it makes sense not re-signing him and making room for Breen and Cundari. I can see where Butler might have a role on this team (temp fill for FILLPOSITION above) but I can also see reasons to simply just let him go and see younger players with upside push up through the ranks.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Fire

Cundari is in the line-up next season guaranteed. I believe he was the last D-man cut from the Blues training camp this season and they have a better blue line then we do. Carson won't be re-signed. Regehr is so over the hill at this point he is already on flat ground.

Next season:

Giordano - Wideman
Brodie - Cundari
Butler - Smith
Sarich/Breen

Sarich will be traded at the deadline.

Only one hitter and still unproven in Cundari. With that d group we are going to have a 3.50GAA again! so butlersoft.

[PeteMoss]

Butler was scratched for 2 of the first 4 games (they were basically just rotating guys at that point... if you recall Brodie was scratched once as well).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

For the reason you just described... he's scratched 18/42 times on a bad team and older... at $2M, is someone going to take him? If not, he's stuck on your roster (#7 guy). That was Feaster's boo boo.

I'm not saying we have to dump Butler ASAP or anything, I'm just saying I can see where it makes sense not re-signing him and making room for Breen and Cundari. I can see where Butler might have a role on this team (temp fill for FILLPOSITION above) but I can also see reasons to simply just let him go and see younger players with upside push up through the ranks.

Yes, Sarich is tradeable IMO.

It just doesn't make any sense to not re-sign Butler. He's an asset. You don't let decent assets go for nothing. Not sure why you can't agree to that. IMO he's better than former Flames like Montador, Pardy, Commodore, etc. Those guys all had value, they all signed shocking deals at some point. If you think Butler has little to no value then you either underrate him as a player or you underrate the value of young depth defensemen who are NHL calibre.

[puckedoff]

Sarich paired with a mid pick is tradeable for teams looking to offload salary with the cap going down.
Not re-signing Butler would be boneheaded given the D corps that we currently have. I don't think hes very good but right now we don't have anything better.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Neither does a guy like Rasmus Ristolainen put up big points but he's ranked about 9th in the upcoming draft. The only reason Wideman gets big bucks is becasue of his offence not his defence. Besides he's -7 with 22 points. Not a lot of upside there for the money.

Have to start remembering he is -7 on a 28th place team that is near the bottom in all defensive stats....-7 on this team is not that bad for a 22-24 minute guy.

[Bertuzzied]

I think for sure we should re-sign Butler. but then we trade his ass for a 4th or 5th rounder. If Regehr can get 2 2nd rounders, Butler should at least get us a 5th.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Only one hitter and still unproven in Cundari. With that d group we are going to have a 3.50GAA again! so butlersoft.

So Butlersoft nice. Feaster should be harshly judged when he resigns Butlersoft unless it is for immediate trade.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

So Butlersoft nice. Feaster should be harshly judged when he resigns Butlersoft.

Butlersoft® is a CP trademark!!

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Anyone who is saying they wouldn't sign Butler is off their rocker. He's a legit NHL player. He may not have a ton of potential or ever be anything beyond a 5-6 guy but you don't just let a guy walk for nothing when he's going to cost you 1.5 million and can actually play in the NHL.

I get the guy is some's whipping boy because the Regehr trade wasn't what anyone expected and he was overmatched in the top pairing role last year. But the guy is fine.

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh.

Butler is everything this team doesn't need going forward. I don't give a crap if Butler paid the Flames $1.25M to be on the team, he is always a disaster waiting to happen.

I'd let him walk, actually I'd shove him out the door as there are many other options for 5-6 d-men looking for jobs every year,
or go with young guys fighting it out for the spot.

As far as being a "whipping boy" because he is part of the Regehr trade, BS. He is a whipping boy because of his non-existent hockey IQ, the panic he displays when he has the puck, the bad reads, the horrible giveaways, the screens he puts up for our goalies, the back in, back in, give the opponent space mentality he plays with.

I can't even imagine how exposed he would be in a playoff series. Ask Buffalo fans, they'll tell you how brutal he was in their last playoff run.

Guys like Butler are a dime a dozen, we know what he brings, it's not good enough, time to go a different route. Addition by subtraction at it's finest.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh.

Butler is everything this team doesn't need going forward. I don't give a crap if Butler paid the Flames $1.25M to be on the team, he is always a disaster waiting to happen.

I'd let him walk, actually I'd shove him out the door as there are many other options for 5-6 d-men looking for jobs every year,
or go with young guys fighting it out for the spot.

As far as being a "whipping boy" because he is part of the Regehr trade, BS. He is a whipping boy because of his non-existent hockey IQ, the panic he displays when he has the puck, the bad reads, the horrible giveaways, the screens he puts up for our goalies, the back in, back in, give the opponent space mentality he plays with.

I can't even imagine how exposed he would be in a playoff series. Ask Buffalo fans, they'll tell you how brutal he was in their last playoff run.

Guys like Butler are a dime a dozen, we know what he brings, it's not good enough, time to go a different route. Addition by subtraction at it's finest.

Disagree.

Every team gets injuries. You need players like Butler who are not good enough for that full time to 4 role, to fill in when your regular top 4 goes down.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by blankall

Disagree.

Every team gets injuries. You need players like Butler who are not good enough for that full time to 4 role, to fill in when your regular top 4 goes down.

Disagree.

If Butler is playing a top 4 role, this team will not win many games as shown since he has been on the team. So what is the point?

Time to try something else.

[Da_Chief]

Wouldn't care if he's re-signed or not.

Moving forward:
The guaranteed
Brodie - developing top pair
Gio - staying for the long haul (who's gonna to ATB commercials?), Needs to be physical again, 2nd pairing
Wideman - that contract isn't going anywhere, 2nd pair

Good bet to be on the team next
Cundari - high on him, will get a chance, bottom pair
Breen - has paid his dues and ready according to PMM, bottom pair
Butler - he's young and can move the puck, bottom pair

Depends on what happens in the summer
Sarich - not needed as 7th dman
Smith - Waive him to the minors

Minors
Wotherspoon - Full year in the minors, future top 4
Lamb - He's improving, another year in the minors
Martin - Same as Lamb
Ramage - Doesn't look like he's gonna be here

Juniors
Sieloff - Needs to take a step forward next year
Kulak - Bulk up, good skills
Culkin - Work on the defensive game


Future: (When we're ready to compete again, 2-3 years)
______-Brodie
Giordano-Wotherspoon
Wideman-Cundari

Needs to find that #1 dman, that'll be fun. Would the Dion like to come back in 2014 as a UFA? I'd take him but I doubt he wants to come back here.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Have to start remembering he is -7 on a 28th place team that is near the bottom in all defensive stats....-7 on this team is not that bad for a 22-24 minute guy.

He has played over 24 minutes only 1x this year and over 22 min only 3x this year

I also disagree about comparisons to Montador, Pardy and Commodore; I think Montador had far more upside; Pardy had a few tools but they didn't come together; Commodore sucked. I would compare Chris Butler closer to a Joel Bouchard. His redeeming qualities are he is "young" (25) and "well somebody has to play" ... if is brought back next year, fine, no big deal. If he's let go, thats fine too - a 23 man roster spot seems just too valuable and could go to someone more potential. And if worse comes to worse, and plan A, B, C and D all fail... guys like Butler are dime an dozen and easily acquired IMO.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

He has played over 24 minutes only 1x this year and over 22 min only 3x this year

I also disagree about comparisons to Montador, Pardy and Commodore; I think Montador had far more upside; Pardy had a few tools but they didn't come together; Commodore sucked. I would compare Chris Butler closer to a Joel Bouchard. His redeeming qualities are he is "young" (25) and "well somebody has to play" ... if is brought back next year, fine, no big deal. If he's let go, thats fine too - a 23 man roster spot seems just too valuable and could go to someone more potential. And if worse comes to worse, and plan A, B, C and D all fail... guys like Butler are dime an dozen and easily acquired IMO.

Looks like several of us disagree with you Phanuthier. I guess we'll just have to wait and see who's right.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Looks like several of us disagree with you Phanuthier. I guess we'll just have to wait and see who's right.

Wait and see about what? Did you happen to miss every single time, I said "if is brought back next year, fine, no big deal. If he's let go, thats fine too" or something?

Whatever about the "several" if that makes you feel better. Its pretty much 3-4 people just thanking each others post. I never thought that would be some sort of verification or anything.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Wait and see about what? Did you happen to miss every single time, I said "if is brought back next year, fine, no big deal. If he's let go, thats fine too" or something?

Whatever about the "several" if that makes you feel better. Its pretty much 3-4 people just thanking each others post. I never thought that would be some sort of verification or anything.

No I didn't miss anything. I got the "if we must attitude" from your postings. I also read "a 23 man roster spot seems just too valuable and could go to someone more potential". That could apply to almost anyone on the ream right now. Some of us think that Butler has earned a new contract. As for verification, I'm sure we don't need each others "thanks" but then again I also don't need your lecture. I get it, you think you're the only one who's opinion counts here.

[Phanuthier]

What lecture?

[Teroy]

CW - (23) - Mikael Backlund
CW - (23) - Paul Byron
RW - (23) - Akim Aliu
CW - (22) - Greg Nemisz
RW - (24) - Bryan Cameron
CW - (23) - Lance Bouma
LW - (23) - Carter Bancks
CW - (22) - Gaelan Patterson

Interesting how many of the RFA's are listed as Centre. Add to this:
Street, Jones, Reinhart, Horak, Cervenka, Stajan, Hudler and Cammi. Surely we can fill the position even if we don't land a Centre in the draft.

[Dagger]

You're both right. Butler has probably earned a new contract for what he does(play decent bottom pairing minutes and occasionally step into the top 4) but at the same time it's not like you have to look far to find a player like him.