New Edmonton Arena Construction will begin in March 2014

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Calgary's noise bylaws, and fussy McMahon neighbours.

So what made Ozzy an exception? Have to consider that the noise was noticeable there.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Joborule

So what made Ozzy an exception? Have to consider that the noise was noticeable there.

They allow them once in a while, but there's a lot of trouble from noise bylaws and backlash from the surrounding area.

[jayswin]

I also find it funny that the only acts that ever play McMahon, end up drawing few enough fans that they could have just played the Saddledome. The latest Lileth Fair and Monsters of Rock with Ozzy, come to mind.

[GGG]

The ridiculous part of these teams asking for money is we just had lockout of two groups fighting over millions of dollars.

If you cut the cap by 20 million dollars each team could have a new arena every 30 years. If you cut the cap by 5 million per year the City's portion of the new arena wouldnt be neccessary. The NFL recgnizing that the public appitite for fund arenas negotiated that stadium building was removed from revenues before the Cap was calculaed. There is enough money for each team to fund their own buildings. The only reason cities cave is they give into the blackmail of we will move somewhere else.

The Cities of North America need to agree as a group to stop funding arenas and poaching teams.

[Sylvanfan]

There is no way this arena with this design can be built for this price tag. The contractor who get's this contract will end up in court, and half the sub trades unpaid. Fixed price contracts on complex iconic designs always result in cost overruns. I was talking with a weld inspector about the Peace Bridge today and how the company hired to fix the f'ups by the Spanish steel supplyer is probably going to go bankrupt becuse the general contractor won't pay them, and the city won't either. This will be like the Peace Bridge times 10.

[SebC]

One of my friends posted this on FB, thought I'd share it here.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/1/29...50-million-buy

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

One of my friends posted this on FB, thought I'd share it here.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/1/29...50-million-buy

That is fantastic, buying the oilers and renovating rexal is cheaper than paying katz.

Even better is that their idea of a new downtown anchor tenant is another waterpark

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

That is fantastic, buying the oilers and renovating rexal is cheaper than paying katz.

Even better is that their idea of a new downtown anchor tenant is another waterpark

It also uses $550 million as a budget, while citing a source that cites $218 million for the city.

Obviously a somewhat silly article, but it does make a nice point that it would be cheaper to keep the team in Edmonton by buying it than it is by appeasing Katz.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

It also uses $550 million as a budget, while citing a source that cites $218 million for the city.

Obviously a somewhat silly article, but it does make a nice point that it would be cheaper to keep the team in Edmonton by buying it than it is by appeasing Katz.

It includes the susidies as well as the cash. An interest free loan or even a low interest one is worth at least 2-3%. The tax breaks are worth some to.

[You Need a Thneed]

Edmonton Journal - Paula Simons: Waiting for No Dough - Banking on iffy dollars to build arena is absurd

It went on. And on. And on. And yet it went nowhere.

This Wednesday’s city council meeting was a true piece of absurdist comedy, on par with Beckett’s Waiting for Godot.

Call it, Waiting for No Dough.

Once upon a time, council vowed it would not sign an arena deal with Daryl Katz unless the project received $100 million from the Alberta government.

It was political madness to make the deal contingent on the largesse of another level of government. Whatever Ed Stelmach or Alison Redford may have hinted behind the scenes, the province has never coughed up the missing millions.

So council has simply decided to pretend otherwise.

But wait. It gets weirder.

Wednesday’s council motion also affirmed that the city will not sign any deal with Katz until and unless the province puts up $55 million, the rest of the missing $100 million. Stephen Mandel suggested that the council motion sent a strong message to the province that it needs to come to the table.

Yet Redford has made it plain — at least in public — that she’s not playing.

“I think the premier has been clear,” Baranski said. “There will be no direct funding for a professional sports arena.”

Nor, he said, will there be any new pool of funding that would be used to pay for the arena indirectly.

Short Summary:
1. Edmonton receives $3 million more than expected in MSI money this year from the province.
2. Edmonton council assumes that $3 million per year extra is permanent, and decides to put the next 15 years worth towards the arena. MSI isn't guaranteed at all past 2017, BTW.
3. Edmonton City Council still is looking for the Alberta Government to fund $55 million - which they have repeatedly stated that they will not be giving.

My opinion still:
-No arena is built in Edmonton until Katz sells the team to someone who is actually willing to pay for the arena they want themselves.

[jayswin]

Wait, didn't they announce like a month ago that this was a done deal?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Wait, didn't they announce like a month ago that this was a done deal?

It's still not a done deal. They've announced it several times that "a deal is done!" but every "deal" has been contingent on getting money from the province.

This is all for a project that had an original budget of $450 million, but now, despite cutting a bunch out of the arena, still has a $480 million budget. I'm guessing that there might be scope creep and other extra costs as well that no one has covered.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by korzym12

People are dying on the highway out to Fort McMurray, for which there's no funding for, and you want the government to pay for an arena. Government's role is to provide essential services which a private business cannot.

No funding? Hasn't the government already committed to twinning Highway 63 by 2016? It's a big project that isn't going to happen overnight but it's happening so what are you complaining about here?

[You Need a Thneed]

By my count, around $430 million dollars has now been earmarked by Edmonton city council to hand over from taxpayers to a billionaire.

In the proposed deal, Katz is essentially paying nothing to have the arena built, and the arena is essentially turned over to the Oilers after it is complete.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Calgary's noise bylaws, and fussy McMahon neighbours.

Lots of surgeons and doctors live in that area and money talks.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

By my count, around $430 million dollars has now been earmarked by Edmonton city council to hand over from taxpayers to a billionaire.

In the proposed deal, Katz is essentially paying nothing to have the arena built, and the arena is essentially turned over to the Oilers after it is complete.

Just like I said last year it was going to happen. I understand your frustration but it's no different than the Peace Bridge that the majority of the city didn't want it and it's now part of the landscape. I have accepted that $40 million (likely actual cost that the city it too embaressed to disclose) waste and have moved on.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just like I said last year it was going to happen. I understand your frustration but it's no different than the Peace Bridge that the majority of the city didn't want it and it's now part of the landscape.I have accepted that $40 million (likely actual cost that the city it too embaressed to disclose) waste and have moved on.

You keep saying that, but never say what you base that assumption on. A few loudmouths from the Sun yelling hysterically does not constitute the majority of the city.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just like I said last year it was going to happen. I understand your frustration but it's no different than the Peace Bridge that the majority of the city didn't want it and it's now part of the landscape. I have accepted that $40 million (likely actual cost that the city it too embaressed to disclose) waste and have moved on.

Pffff..... you call that post full of misinformation and conjecture? I bet I could fit at least twice as much in there!

[CaptainCrunch]

Guess Katz is going to book another trip to Seattle and Hamilton.

Bottom line is the Province can't give the money in this day and age of severe cuts combined with fact that any outlay of cash would have to be times two as Calgary would demand the same deal. There's not almost a quarter billion dollars in money floating around unless the government sharply raises taxes, and we've already had Redfords George Bush Speech.

On top of that, if she gives the money to Edmonton and indirectly Katz, that whole Katz family donation that's still being looked at springs to the front page of every newspaper and the Redford government can't have any more negative press.

I highly doubt that this arena gets built unless its funded by the city (bleah) and the billionaire that owns them.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just like I said last year it was going to happen. I understand your frustration but it's no different than the Peace Bridge that the majority of the city didn't want it and it's now part of the landscape. I have accepted that $40 million (likely actual cost that the city it too embaressed to disclose) waste and have moved on.

Peace Bridge:
-$25 million (there is no way that the city's supvision and in house engineering cost $15 million, as you claim)
-Public infrastructure
-was needed (City Centre plan outlined the need for a bridge in that location, also was essentially no place for bikes to cross the river)
-Despite any issues during construction, it's done, and paid for.

Edmonton Arena:
-$430+ million so far + still looking for another $55 million from taxpayers
-Going to be turned over to a billionaire, for the billionaire to take all the profits from the building.
-This newest money promised to the project is money that Edmonton's council doesn't even know that they have.


You don't see the difference?