Offseason - strategy of exploiting teams in cap trouble

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by #-3

You could Add St Louis to that list, while they are not up there in Salary yet, they have an impressive RFA list this year, with more guys coming next year.

Pietrangelo, Stewart, Berglund, Shattenkirk, Allan, Russel, Cole This year

Sobatka, Schwartz Next.

while their cap situation doesn't look that bad now, pencil Pietrangelo and Stewart in at over $10M between the 2 of them, and it starts to get tight knowing that Berglund and Shattenkirk will also command big raises.

If you can work it with the Players.

I would offer sheet Piertrangelo at a $6.5M+ cap hit, then when St Louis matches, offer sheet another one of those 3 at a number St Louis can no longer afford.

If they don't match good, we will have basically traded JBo for Piertr + our 1st(2014) for their 1st(2013) + some other picks and prospects thrown in.

It would take over 7 million to probably get Pietrangelo out of STL and that requires us to give up 2 firsts + a second. I'd actually entertain that. A franchise defenseman to go along with a franchise forward(hopefully from the draft) would give us a great core going forward. I'd rather not risk Feaster drafting in the top 10 again.

[mac_82]

St. Louis also has an internal cap. Seems like they've been trying to stay around $55-57m.

[trackercowe]

I also like the thought of signing UFA's to short term 1-2 year deals, with the intention of dealing them at the deadline. So offer Ribeiro 7 million, or Filpula 5+ million, or whatever amount is significantly more than what other teams are offering in long term deals. Other teams should be willing to give up decent value for rentals at the deadline, regardless of what their cap hit will be.

If we're going to stink, we might as well find a way to get as many prospects/picks as possible.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Dagger

It would take over 7 million to probably get Pietrangelo out of STL and that requires us to give up 2 firsts + a second. I'd actually entertain that. A franchise defenseman to go along with a franchise forward(hopefully from the draft) would give us a great core going forward. I'd rather not risk Feaster drafting in the top 10 again.

I think you could offer him $7.5M and St Louis would keep him,

But the point is frist do Pietr,

leave St Louis with $17.5 for 5 or 6 guys including Stewart, Berglund, and Shattekirk.

Then offer sheet Shattenkirk or Berglund at like ~$5 and there is no way they match. KNowing they still have to sign Stewart at $5+ and whichever one you don't offer sheet at ~$4.5.

Either Shattenkirk or Berglund would address a major area of need for the Flames. Young Top 6 Center or Right Handed Top four 4 dman that has played on the PK.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think you could offer him $7.5M and St Louis would keep him,

But the point is fist do Pietr,

leave St Louis with $17.5 for 5 or 6 guys including Stewart, Berglund, and Shattekirk.

Then offer sheet Shattenkirk or Berglund at like ~$5 and there is no way they match. KNowing they still have to sign Stewart at $5+ and whichever one you don't offer sheet at ~$4.5.

Either Shattenkirk or Berglund would address a major area of need for the Flames. Young Top 6 Center or Right Handed Top for 4man that has played on the PK.

Best username ever

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think you could offer him $7.5M and St Louis would keep him,

But the point is frist do Pietr,

leave St Louis with $17.5 for 5 or 6 guys including Stewart, Berglund, and Shattekirk.

Then offer sheet Shattenkirk or Berglund at like ~$5 and there is no way they match. KNowing they still have to sign Stewart at $5+ and whichever one you don't offer sheet at ~$4.5.

Either Shattenkirk or Berglund would address a major area of need for the Flames. Young Top 6 Center or Right Handed Top four 4man that has played on the PK.

Wow. That is awesome. Haha. Feaster starts by buying good will with Chiarelli at the deadline, then after a nice trade with St Louis, follows it up with a full blown assault. Can you imagine that?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dagger

It would take over 7 million to probably get Pietrangelo out of STL and that requires us to give up 2 firsts + a second. I'd actually entertain that. A franchise defenseman to go along with a franchise forward(hopefully from the draft) would give us a great core going forward. I'd rather not risk Feaster drafting in the top 10 again.

Even if you offered 7.5 7 years St. Louis would match and shop Jbo to save the money.

[Dagger]

Non-cap teams usually adjust if there's a viable reason to do so.

Columbus went from 46 to 56 to 61 when ownership saw the team could make the playoffs the first time, then when they added Carter they jumped a lot. Now they're at 53 when they started the reload after the last place finish. Cap% wise they went from 82 ---> 88 ---> 95 back down to 75 now.

In 3 years LA has gone from an 89% team to a 100% team within 3 years with the view that they can win.

Tampa added 10m in payroll after their narrow loss in the ECF.

I don't think we can assume STL won't open up the chequebook, as ownership is committed to regrowing the Blues back into being relevant in St. Louis as the team was when it made the playoffs 25 straight times.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Wow. That is awesome. Haha. Feaster starts by buying good will with Chiarelli at the deadline, then after a nice trade with St Louis, follows it up with a full blown assault. Can you imagine that?

Sad to say but when there is so much money involved, you have friends when you have assets, and no friends when you don't have assets. History doesn't really matter.

And right now we are shy on friends, so it is no time to be playing nice.

[jeffman]

I was thinking about this last week. I think we didn't get any solid prospects back because we would have to take some of pitts /st Louis bad contracts back. Howeve now that we have a lot of cap, a few teams(nyr/Philly ) that are close to the cap and only have 14-19 people under contract but would like to participate in free agency this summe might be willing to send some bad contracts to us except they would have to pay us with draft picks. Hopefully feaster can regher some teams this draft

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The best way to make some hay out of this situation is to try and exploit some Malakhov + 1st round pick for salary cap space type deals. We can take alot of garbage contracts on, and in the process get some nice future assets. So long as those contracts don't eat into the window of us being successful (not longer than 3-4 years) then that should be the strategy.

If they could eat $15m in bad contracts but serviceable NHLers and end up with an additional 2-3 1sts and 2-3 2nds over the next 2-3 drafts that would be sweet. IMO it is not impossible.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think you could offer him $7.5M and St Louis would keep him,

But the point is frist do Pietr,

leave St Louis with $17.5 for 5 or 6 guys including Stewart, Berglund, and Shattekirk.

Then offer sheet Shattenkirk or Berglund at like ~$5 and there is no way they match. KNowing they still have to sign Stewart at $5+ and whichever one you don't offer sheet at ~$4.5.

Either Shattenkirk or Berglund would address a major area of need for the Flames. Young Top 6 Center or Right Handed Top four 4 dman that has played on the PK.

Ok, I see what you mean. It just comes down to if you think either is worth our first + a third, when it's likely neither of those guys propels us to better than than an 8-10 pick. I don't think either do that, especially considering we'll be seeing teams like Anaheim, Vancouver, LA 6 times each plus a more mature Edmonton team, and a wildcard in Colorado who with better coaching could be a big threat.

[Husky]

I am guessing a team will buy out player x before trading away quality assets in a package to move the salary.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Husky

I am guessing a team will buy out player x before trading away quality assets in a package to move the salary.

Depends what team and how large the contract most likely.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Husky

I am guessing a team will buy out player x before trading away quality assets in a package to move the salary.

May depend on how much the owners like throwing away cash today, and the number of draft picks and depth of their prospect pools. These are still real dollars at the end of the day.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

I also like the thought of signing UFA's to short term 1-2 year deals, with the intention of dealing them at the deadline. So offer Ribeiro 7 million, or Filpula 5+ million, or whatever amount is significantly more than what other teams are offering in long term deals. Other teams should be willing to give up decent value for rentals at the deadline, regardless of what their cap hit will be.

If we're going to stink, we might as well find a way to get as many prospects/picks as possible.

Nobody went for Cammalleri or Stajan or Stempniak or Sarich who have one or year left and according to Feaster were open to offers.

Nobody would give a 3rd or 4th rounder for Cervenka who is playing out his last few games with the Flames.

There is a very big flaw in that strategy.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Non-cap teams usually adjust if there's a viable reason to do so.

Columbus went from 46 to 56 to 61 when ownership saw the team could make the playoffs the first time, then when they added Carter they jumped a lot. Now they're at 53 when they started the reload after the last place finish. Cap% wise they went from 82 ---> 88 ---> 95 back down to 75 now.

In 3 years LA has gone from an 89% team to a 100% team within 3 years with the view that they can win.

Tampa added 10m in payroll after their narrow loss in the ECF.

I don't think we can assume STL won't open up the chequebook, as ownership is committed to regrowing the Blues back into being relevant in St. Louis as the team was when it made the playoffs 25 straight times.

They also get Bouwmeester off their books in 14 months IF they can't trick someone into taking him at next year's trade deadline.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

If they could eat $15m in and end up with an additional 2-3 1sts and 2-3 2nds over the next 2-3 drafts that would be sweet. IMO it is not impossible.

Then Feaster is the GM of the year...... He was able to get a 1st round pick for our salary dump rather than giving one away.

What you are saying is that St. L. would have to give up a high pick to get rid of Bouwmeester? look in the dictionary under "bad contracts but serviceable NHLers " and there is a picture of JayBo.


There will be no team that gives away a 1st round pick to dump salary.... especially when they can do a buyout that does not impact the cap.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

They also get Bouwmeester off their books in 14 months IF they can't trick someone into taking him at next year's trade deadline.

They seem to be doing very well with him as a top pairing D. Who told you that they will not try to re-sign him?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nobody went for Cammalleri or Stajan or Stempniak or Sarich who have one or year left and according to Feaster were open to offers.

Nobody would give a 3rd or 4th rounder for Cervenka who is playing out his last few games with the Flames.

There is a very big flaw in that strategy.

Nobody paid what the flames thought those players were worth. They are still trade assets this summer or next deadline. No need to sell low if the returns offered were no good