Margaret Thatcher Dies

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that people forget that Thatcher came into power when the British Economy was being crippled by the over powered Unions and the fact that major British Industry was being run by the government in a very poor manner.

The miners hated her for staring their unions in the face and rightfully breaking them with one of the most damning statistics was that labor action costs the British Economy 29 million working days lost in 1979 and she reduced that to less then a half million per year by the time she left power.

She also got the government out of the Airline, gas and mining industries privatizing them completely.

She was given the nickname of Iron Lady not by her own people but by the Soviets who found her to be formidable.

The Falklands war was an overwhelming success and helped resurrect British Pride and put them back on the World Stage as a middle to high power.

Her major downfall was caused by the implementation of a individual Community charge which became a Poll Task, her party turned against her and she was bounced out.

She was unafraid to do what she felt was right and was willing to pick a fight to do it. She broke Unions that were killing the British Economy, went to war to defend British Territory, was a major architect in the death of the Soviet Union. she didn't handle the Irish Problems well, and will forever be criticized for not meeting with Hunger Strikers (Not sure she should have, but whatever), and completely blew it on the Poll tax. But she was the leader that the British needed considering that her predecessors were the incredibly weak and terrible Labour Party.

She was the leader that the world needed at the time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Itse

Missing her about as much as Kim Il-sung.

Although in her credit, she inspired a lot better music.

21 angry songs about Thatcher

My favourite being this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcXi-VYy_Yw

Pretty bloody terrible comparison.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Pretty bloody terrible comparison.

oh I see what you did there......

[Barnet Flame]

Many communities still haven't recovered as a result of her actions. She stood by despots, was on the wrong side of just about every social argument and I won't be mourning her.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...eath-etiquette

[Itse]

Oh yes, wonderful, let's talk about the working days lost to labor actions and not the over one million newly unemployed workers. How many lost work days is that exactly? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. And speaking of babies, more than a quarter of Britains children lived under the poverty line at the end of her reign, a staggering number considering the relatively prosperous era of the eighties. Such wonderful conservative values she had.

She also rather consistently everyone fighting againsg government oppression as terrorists, most famously Nelson Mandela, and was a firm backer of the South African apartheid government.

As to "unafraid to do what she felt was right and was willing to pick a fight to do it", such a wonderful trait in a politician that is. Very George Bush Jr. like description.

It's always funny when people talk about "tough decisions", as if it was tough for Baroness Thatcer to decide that you know what, I want the people I know to have as much money as possible and the people I don't know can go to hell, and generally speaking I want everybody to do exactly as I see fit.

That is not a "tough decision", more like narcissism.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Pretty bloody terrible comparison.

It's extreme obviously, but as time goes by, I think history is going to be less and less kind to both Reagan and Thatcher.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think that people forget that Thatcher came into power when the British Economy was being crippled by the over powered Unions and the fact that major British Industry was being run by the government in a very poor manner.

The miners hated her for staring their unions in the face and rightfully breaking them with one of the most damning statistics was that labor action costs the British Economy 29 million working days lost in 1979 and she reduced that to less then a half million per year by the time she left power.

She also got the government out of the Airline, gas and mining industries privatizing them completely.

She was given the nickname of Iron Lady not by her own people but by the Soviets who found her to be formidable.

The Falklands war was an overwhelming success and helped resurrect British Pride and put them back on the World Stage as a middle to high power.

Her major downfall was caused by the implementation of a individual Community charge which became a Poll Task, her party turned against her and she was bounced out.

She was unafraid to do what she felt was right and was willing to pick a fight to do it. She broke Unions that were killing the British Economy, went to war to defend British Territory, was a major architect in the death of the Soviet Union. she didn't handle the Irish Problems well, and will forever be criticized for not meeting with Hunger Strikers (Not sure she should have, but whatever), and completely blew it on the Poll tax. But she was the leader that the British needed considering that her predecessors were the incredibly weak and terrible Labour Party.

She was the leader that the world needed at the time.

It was under Thatcher and Regan that we transferred power from the unions to the bankers, which destroyed manufacturing and has left us in the crap we are in today, I aint saying the unions were great back then, but what we got instead is likely to be the end of us over the next few decades.

[Sylvanfan]

She benefitted greatly from Argentina's delusion that they could claim the Falkland Islands. It wasn't much of a war with Argentina's woefully unprepared millitary thinking they could push around Great Britain. I think it was only recently like within the last 10 years that they started having flights from the Falkland Islands to the Argentine mainland so the residents can catch flights back to Britain, rather than always fly on Millitary planes. Still a fair bit of animosity exists in the Falklands today from what I could gather talking to some locals when I was there in 2009.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's extreme obviously, but as time goes by, I think history is going to be less and less kind to both Reagan and Thatcher.

That's interesting. My English better half and I were just discussing this very point over dinner. We came up with a much different conclusion. I'd argue that Thatcher will come out on the top of a list of Britain's greatest non-wartime Prime Ministers.

Time, however, is going to be far less kind to the architects of "New Labour" - messrs Blair, Brown, Campbell and Mandelson.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It was under Thatcher and Regan that we transferred power from the unions to the bankers, which destroyed manufacturing and has left us in the crap we are in today, I aint saying the unions were great back then, but what we got instead is likely to be the end of us over the next few decades.

If this is indeed going to be the case, which I do not believe, then at least Britain continued to survive and sometimes thrive for decades after the tumultuous period of the 1980s.

I hold firm to the belief that the economy of the United Kingdom in the 1970s was no different to Italy today. I don't think Britain would have survived a Denis Healey-inspired, Michael Foot-led Labour Government.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by NBC

That's interesting. My English better half and I were just discussing this very point over dinner. We came up with a much different conclusion. I'd argue that Thatcher will come out on the top of a list of Britain's greatest non-wartime Prime Ministers.

Time, however, is going to be far less kind to the architects of "New Labour" - messrs Blair, Brown, Campbell and Mandelson.

Thatcher is still hated, the breaking of the miners union was in effect the breaking of the north by the service industry south, even if you thought it was inevitable it was uneccersarliy brutal and even in Wimbledon, as rich a middle class tory voting southern borough as you could get, donations of food for the miners were overflowing outside Sainsburys and most felt nothing but sympathy for the families and mining towns being destroyed.

She also ushered in the era of greed which in the UK meant americanism, and the perceived end of 'traditional british values'.

[NBC]

Ah, traditional British values... "Rum, buggery and the lash." Oh wait those are traditions of the Royal Navy.

My point still stands.

[NBC]

A Point of View: The foibles of four countries

About Britain, and to conclude alliteratively, as I suppose I must, I think there the core irrationality is inwardness. I think of this as Greenwich Mean Time syndrome - the belief, that the time in the UK is the true time in the world, that British values and manners are the obvious norm for values and manners everywhere. Just the way the world should be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22028316

[Locke]

As is in most case the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Thatcher did some really unpopular but necessary things, but she was no selfless saint either, thats a bit of revisionist history.

Its like when Micheal Jackson died, it was as though all of his transgressions had been forgiven, I dont understand that.

Thatcher wasnt the evil soulless harpy she's been made out to be, but she was close.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by NBC

That's interesting. My English better half and I were just discussing this very point over dinner. We came up with a much different conclusion. I'd argue that Thatcher will come out on the top of a list of Britain's greatest non-wartime Prime Ministers.

Time, however, is going to be far less kind to the architects of "New Labour" - messrs Blair, Brown, Campbell and Mandelson.

She might due to her devisiveness but in truth Atlee remains the architect of modern Britain and Thatcher was in effect still running on a platform of reducing Atlee's influence 40 years on, therefore I'd still consider him more important in real terms

[darklord700]

I actually just finished watching "The Iron Lady" this past weekend. It was incredible that she was able to accomplish her goals in a sea of chauvenistic male politicians.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

She might due to her devisiveness but in truth Atlee remains the architect of modern Britain and Thatcher was in effect still running on a platform of reducing Atlee's influence 40 years on, therefore I'd still consider him more important in real terms

If Attlee is truly the architect of "modern Britain" then you could hang all of the current social problems that have arisen with the misuse and abuse of Britain's horribly-bloated, corrupt, mismanaged social-welfare state, firmly on Attlee's monument. The sense of entitlement, the millions of scroungers who have never worked, countless cases of healthcare abuses, the convoluted dysfunctional system of benefits - all in the name of the Beveridge Report, that oh so marvellous wartime document outlining Britain's need for a "cradle-to-grave" state-run social welfare system.

Great idea that. Lenin would have been proud.

But I digress... As such I have a difficult time debating with someone who has such an iconic picture of Bobby Moore as their avatar/photo. Well done. He's someone who was the furthest thing from polarizing.

Unfortunately, like most other polarizing issues, there will be no consensus, no changing of opinions when it comes to the late Mrs Thatcher.

[d_phaneuf]

I agree with NBC on where history will see her, I wouldn't be surprised if she is right behind Churchill and Attlee

She won 3 elections and her party stayed in power once she left, some of the revisionist history seems to suggest she came in as a whirling dervish of destruction

she was in power of a decade and popular with most of the public

[Barnet Flame]

She never ever won most of the popular vote. In no way was she ever popular with most of the public.

[NBC]

^ That is inherent to the Westminster Parliamentary system. I'm not sure how many times any party has won more than 50% of the popular vote in modern times. Plus that isn't really a fair metric to use. If it were a simple question of "do you support the Thatcher government," only then would it be possible to determine someone's electoral popularity. Votes for other parties/candidates do not equate to a vote against anyone else. Universally unpopular leaders do not win large majority governments.

EDIT:

You have to go back to the 1931 UK General Election where Stanley Baldwin won 55% of the popular vote.