The Flames Not As Weak As Many Believe

[timbit]

Not one impact player under 30. That is as weak as it gets. Actually, not one over 30.

Not one top pairing D.

Not one top line forward.

In all likelihood not one top goalie.

Not very many potential impact players...not near what most NHL teams have.

I believe that is as weak as it gets.

[CSharp]

This is not a decent group at all. The Flames lack size up front on the top 3 lines. Their only size comes from the 4th lines which don't have the skills to do the job of scoring on the regular basis. They're fricken goons for crying out loud! The left over guys like Tanguay, GlenX, Cammellari - wished they were traded. Cervenka is really small and is a defensive liability. Besides Backlund and Stajan, this team needs some real serious depth in center position and a #1 centerman.

The defense suck - Jordano, Butler, Wideman - just frustrating to watch in their own zone. Outside of Wideman as a trigger man on the point, there's really no one else who can shoot the puck. Babchuck is not even being utilized so he might as well go to another team in the offseason.

This team, right now, is a pushover. Until Feaster, or whoever comes in as GM, picks up some skill, size, and leadership, this team is on a full rebuild mode year after year.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CSharp

This is not a decent group at all. The Flames lack size up front on the top 3 lines. Their only size comes from the 4th lines which don't have the skills to do the job of scoring on the regular basis. They're fricken goons for crying out loud! The left over guys like Tanguay, GlenX, Cammellari - wished they were traded. Cervenka is really small and is a defensive liability. Besides Backlund and Stajan, this team needs some real serious depth in center position and a #1 centerman.

The defense suck - Jordano, Butler, Wideman - just frustrating to watch in their own zone. Outside of Wideman as a trigger man on the point, there's really no one else who can shoot the puck. Babchuck is not even being utilized so he might as well go to another team in the offseason.

This team, right now, is a pushover. Until Feaster, or whoever comes in as GM, picks up some skill, size, and leadership, this team is on a full rebuild mode year after year.

I have thought a savy GM would pick up some very big very tough players to fill out the team during the rebuild, not so much to win as to keep the fans interest, 'we may not beat you but we're going beat the crap out of you' should be the unofficial motto.

[Teroy]

Just got home from the Vancouver game.

I think the Flames have potential. A couple of the Vancouver goals had eyes. Defensively we need to work on a system. Wideman needs to figure out how to play a 2 on 1. Kipper didn't have a lot of help at times but I question why he played after 40 shots the night before. Offensively we're not far off. At times we look good. I still think we need to stick with some pat lines so players learn to know where each other will be.

[djsFlames]

If the NHL were a league for 2nd line forwards and 3-4 pairing defensemen, then this team would be able to compete with the best of them. Unfortunately that is not the reality here. That is the difference between us and upper echelon teams. We have no equivalents to Toews, Kane, Sedin, Gaborik, Giroux type players to occupy our first line. This is why we seem to hold up well against opposition depth lines, yet get dominated on the first line match ups. We need not 20 goal, 50 points players, but 80+ PPG, true "Elite" players in their prime to constitute our core. I don't disagree that Hudler, Stemp, Gio, Glencross are all great pieces, but they are the kind of guys you'd "fill in the gaps" with, on a good team. And the issue i we've got a team full of these filler-type players. With the exceptions of Backlund, Brodie and Baertschi. Giordano could be in that group, but he's got to prove that he can be as good and consistent as he was a couple seasons ago. Until we have 2 top pairing defensemen, 3 legitimate first line forwards, and a goalie that can be considered a capable starter and log at least league average numbers to make up the core of our team, then we can't be considered just a few players (or Glencross, Tanguay, Stempniak, scoring depth guys) away.

We'll get there, but we've got to draft our own 1st line, 1st D pairing players, and develop them. Because in today's NHL you don't acquire core guys for cup contention through trades or free agency, it just doesn't happen that way. Especially when you look at the past decade of cup winners. We need to grow our own stars. And I believe we will, starting with the upcoming top 3 pick in this draft. As for this current group, they won't compete for anything more than an 8th place finish.. and really, you couldn't expect them to.

[FAN]

The team can be competitive if the team plays like the Predators or the Blues of last year. But that requires good goaltending, good team defense, good coaching, and a hard working team. I don't think Hartley is capable of coaching such a team nor does he want to.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by timbit

Not one impact player under 30. That is as weak as it gets. Actually, not one over 30.

Not one top pairing D.

Not one top line forward.

In all likelihood not one top goalie.

Not very many potential impact players...not near what most NHL teams have.

I believe that is as weak as it gets.

I can't really believe people actually subscribe to the OP?

Not sure what to say to be honest...

[Tinordi]

The reason to aggressively snuff out this opinion or line of thinking is that it could serve to severely undermine the efforts to return the Flames to being a true contender.

If fans somehow think that things aren't as bad as they actually are or that the solutions are easier and shorter then they will be, the reaction to the reality of a long rebuild will be that much worse and the pressure to avoid the right course and keep trying to apply quick fixes will be.

Sure the quick fix may well return the flames to duking it out for 7th or 8th place. That's not the goal. The goal is the build a team in the years required to win the division.

[Vulcan]

If we wanted a quick turnaround, we should have hung on to Iginla and Bouwmeester, and by hook or by crook got rid of at least Tanguay and Cammalleri. We still would have finished with a top 7 pick and would be in shape to reload with bigger tougher players this summer.

Our forwards are too small and weak. Our defence is too small and weak and our goal tending is up in the air.

For defence probably signing Regehr and bringing up Breen would help. Carson may be able to grab a spot here but the Hitmen have a bigger defence than we do.

[toquester]

I don't really think a differing opinion, undermines the team at all. I don't think the team management really cares about opinions voiced on any message board. It should be interesting to see how things play out though.

[kehatch]

We are only a top line, top 4 D or two, and a starting goalie away from being great. Oh, and size. And work ethic. Maybe a couple of centre's. Add a backup goalie and we are set.

Seriously, we sucked when Kipper was standing on his head and Iginla was potting 30+ goals. Some people are just delusional.

[Teroy]

I repeat, "I think the current Flames have potential". I'm not saying we don't need improvement but we have some decent building blocks to work with. A couple of good years of drafts and a UFA or two and we could start to turn it around. All I ask is that I see effort, enthusiasm and excitement.

[Mister Yamoto]

The Flames really aren't as weak as most people believe. They are much worse.

Although guys like Baertschi show a lot of promise the Flames prospect pool is IMO hugely over rated by this board. I bet that the current Hitmen roster has more future NHLers than the Heat.

I'm actually starting to think that the Flames biggest fail is the development aspect even more so than the drafting. These players seem great when they are drafted, then the Flames wreck them. Leland Irving is a good example of that.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

The Flames really aren't as weak as most people believe. They are much worse.

Although guys like Baertschi show a lot of promise the Flames prospect pool is IMO hugely over rated by this board. I bet that the current Hitmen roster has more future NHLers than the Heat.

I'm actually starting to think that the Flames biggest fail is the development aspect even more so than the drafting. These players seem great when they are drafted, then the Flames wreck them. Leland Irving is a good example of that.

To be fair re: Irving, his stats did suffer a lot in his last year of junior. That coincided with the year that Kevin Constantine was removed as head coach, a guy with a reputation for being a very defence-first coach.

I do agree though, that both drafting and development are of great importance, and the latter is often overlooked. I would not dispute with anyone if they said that the teams who get late round steals have better scouting. They likely do, but development is a huge part of it all too.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I don't understand why people talk about the small size of Flames players as being something that will improve with a rebuild. The Flames are small because Feaster likes small, skilled players. He consistently brings in small, skilled players. If Feaster can sacrifice size to get a bit more skill, he will do it every time.

Small size is not a problem that Feaster is working feverishly to address, it is a trade off that he is deliberately making to fulfill his vision for this team. If anything, I expect the team to get smaller.

Feaster's vision of a successful Flames team seems to be having a forward corps that is so offensively dynamic that size doesnt matter. He wants to acquire diamond-in-the-rough players, superstars who slip through the cracks of other clubs because of their size, role, or non-traditional path to the NHL. He wants a defence that is all offence and puck control, and doesnt ever need to hit. And he wants back them all up with a black horse goalie brought in from outside the NHL.

I'm sure that if you actually buy into it, you could do a good job of selling this plan.

But the predictable, almost inevitable trade off of this is going to be:

1) The smallest roster in the NHL.
2) A glut of worthless prospects who fell through the cracks of other clubs because they are never going to make it in the NHL.
3) A defence that produces points, but gives up buckets of goals because they are small and offensively-minded players.
4) At least some goalies who are not in the NHL because they are not NHL calibre goalies.

Even if the club gets much, much better over the course of a rebuild, I expect they will still be small, soft defensively, and with question marks about goaltending.

Feaster is imagining Theo Fleury, Marty St Louis, Drew Doughty, and Henrik Lundquist.
So far he's delivered Paul Byron, a 1st rounder who never even played juniors, Chris Butler, and Henrik Karlsson. Let's hope he improves on that soon.

[Vulcan]

Yeah Backcheck, it must be fun to experiment with your own pet ideas of what a NHL team should be. Amateurs.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I don't understand why people talk about the small size of Flames players as being something that will improve with a rebuild. The Flames are small because Feaster likes small, skilled players. He consistently brings in small, skilled players. If Feaster can sacrifice size to get a bit more skill, he will do it every time.

Small size is not a problem that Feaster is working feverishly to address, it is a trade off that he is deliberately making to fulfill his vision for this team. If anything, I expect the team to get smaller.

Lol. Good points. Feaster is always going to be on the lookout for the next Martin St. Louis and Dan Boyle. I do, however, see Feaster switching course when he realizes (from the media and fans) that lack of size and toughness is a problem that needs to be addressed. He'll then probably go overboard and trade first round picks for the Chris Gratton and Shane O'Briens of the world.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by timbit

Not one impact player under 30. That is as weak as it gets. Actually, not one over 30.

Not one top pairing D.

Not one top line forward.

In all likelihood not one top goalie.

Not very many potential impact players...not near what most NHL teams have.

I believe that is as weak as it gets.

The Young Guns were actually in a better position as they had a young Iginla, Stillman, Savard, Morris, Regehr, etc. The issue then was that there wasn't enough money to add quality depth and veteran skill. This team has the resources to add UFA's but zero impact players. Not very promising and really the only chance they have to compete going forward is to play a close to the vest style of hockey like the Predators.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Young Guns were actually in a better position as they had a young Iginla, Stillman, Savard, Morris, Regehr, etc. The issue then was that there wasn't enough money to add quality depth and veteran skill. This team has the resources to add UFA's but zero impact players. Not very promising and really the only chance they have to compete going forward is to play a close to the vest style of hockey like the Predators.

They should be adding some guys who just go out and do their jobs professionally. Solid two way players as an example to the youth. Plus some hard nosed/over the edge types to keep the opponents honest. Plus as you say they should be learning to play well defensively if they don't want to be embarrassed on a regular basis and screw with the confidence of the youngsters.

[Beatle17]

Maybe I think different than most on here but I think the OP wasn't too far off on his thinking but maybe it didn't come across too well for everyone. The Flames don't currently have the centerpiece to be the franchise guy but maybe that will be rectified in this draft. I think that with the current players to SUPPLEMENT the young guys, and to take some of the heavy lifting off them that the Flames can turn around within a couple years and be competitive. If you totally get rid of all NHL caliber players and try to run with young rookies then the team is in for a world of hurt. If, and this is a big if, they draft the correct players to start the turnaround, keep some of the veteran players they have to help guide them and add a few free agents (not top of the line guys but some big rough defencemen) then they can start turning it around.