Offseason Changes - What will they look like for Calgary?

[_Q_]

Man watching some of you put skill guys like Baertschi and MacKinnon on the fourth line makes me want to punch a hole in my wall or kick a small dog.

Do you guys realize what the purpose of a fourth line is?

[BruceCody]

Baertschi-Backlund-Stempniak
Glencross-MacKinnon-Horak
Tanguay-Reinhart-Hudler
Byron-Bouma-McGrattan
Aliu, Ferland


Brodie-Wideman
Smith-Wotherspoon
Ramage-Cundari
Breen

Berra
Ramo
Taylor

Cammalleri, Stajan, Giordano, Sarich trade for picks
make 30th place to better chance for another top pick in lottery

[Hockey_Ninja]

Mackinnon in no way should be on the 3rd/4th line if he gets drafted to us. Absolutely no way. Let the guy get on the top two lines and roll with the skilled wingers. All of you guys moaning about us not giving young guys a chance and some of you have Stajan ahead of him in your projected line-ups?...Ugh. Please ship out one of Cammi or Tanguay to so Sven can get some real ice time as well.

[Caged Great]

What I would like to see.

Cammalleri traded at draft for a lower line/salary guy and a pick/prospect of some sort. Somewhat like the Langkow for Stempniak trade, but with a better return.

If possible, trade Tanguay as well even if the return is nominal just to get him off the team. He's not a player that I would like the kids learning from.

Tim Jackman traded for a 7th or equivalent nobody.

Cory Sarich traded for as good of a pick as you can get.

Cervenka re-signed to a 1 year 1.75 million dollar contract
Backlund re-signed to a 2 year 4 million dollar contract - 2 per
McGratton re-signed to a 2 year 1.25 million dollar contract - .6125 per
Paul Byron re-signed to a 1 year 750K contract - 2 way
TJ Brodie re-signed to a 3 year 6.75 million dollar contract - 2.25 per

Let Chris Butler and the UFA's walk.

If Kipper retires, re-sign Joey Mac or find another UFA backup goalie. Doesn't really matter much.

Go after young UFA's

Guys like Bobby Sanguinetti (D), Guillaume Latendresse (LW), Grant Clitsome (D), Kyle Chipchura (C), Bryan Bickell (LW),
Victor Stalberg (LW), Tyler Bozak (C), Ian White (D), Valterri Filppula (C)

Even if we overpay any of these players on 3 year contracts to be place filler types, it would be alright.

I would keep all of the young guys in their junior leagues that we draft. Even if we draft Drouin, McKinnon, Jones, or Barkov. Our roster is still a mess, and I'd rather have as complete of a culture change as possible before bringing up any of the kids, as well, as it's better for them to dominate their leagues instead of getting rushed to the NHL.

[Caged Great]

The lines I'd roll with are

Baertschi-Filpulla-Hudler
Glencross-Backlund-Cervenka
Bickell-Stajan-Stempniak
McGratton-Reinhart-Aliu

Brodie-Clitsome
Giordano-Wideman
Sanguinetti-Breen

Ramo/Berra/Kipper/MacDonald/other UFA goalie.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I would keep all of the young guys in their junior leagues that we draft. Even if we draft Drouin, McKinnon, Jones, or Barkov. Our roster is still a mess, and I'd rather have as complete of a culture change as possible before bringing up any of the kids, as well, as it's better for them to dominate their leagues instead of getting rushed to the NHL.

That exactly. And don't forget, the Heat are also a gong show right now. Sven could have been MVP and going for the Memorial Cup right now. Instead he's playing out the string with a bunch of losers.

I agree, the Flames need a complete culture change before they start bringing in the new young core.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Man watching some of you put skill guys like Baertschi and MacKinnon on the fourth line makes me want to punch a hole in my wall or kick a small dog.

Do you guys realize what the purpose of a fourth line is?

Maybe they are posting depth charts? I know I was.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by #-3

There are allot of free agent goaltenders available this summer.

Backstrom
Smith
Emery
Thomas
Howard
Mason
Ellis
LaBarbera
McDonald
Theodore
Budaj
Montoya

The way Emery has played this year, I'd overpay for him to come in and compete with Ramo/Berra for the starters role. I use the term "compete" loosely as it would probably be his to lose.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Couturier is the #2 centre because of ????? scoring potential?

Flyers sure would like him to play better than he has done this year.


36 games 3 goals 12 pts and -12.... almost the same line as Cervenka

Right now Stajan is a better NHL player than him.

Rienhart... from one NHL game... seems to be physically strong... might be an equivalent to Couturier if given a chance.

Couturier has not stepped up and developed anywhere what he was expected to.

Right now he is progressing slower than Backlund was 2 years ago


Not only Flames can't miss prospects sometimes don't pan out.

Agree 100%. Don't get me wrong, he's still young and has developmental years left in him, but there was a reason his stock fell at the draft. Right now I'd rather have their 1st rounder.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Tanguay, Cammalleri, Sarich, and Kipper moved one way or another between the draft and the next deadline. No salary returned.

They will attempt to acquire two top 6 forwards, a top 4 D, and a goalie via draft, trade, or free agency.

Let's assume they get Horton and Emery via free agency and Mike Green via trade. They draft Mackinnon.

Baertschi - Mackinnon - Horton
Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Horak - Stajan - Stempniak
Bouma - Reinhart - Jackman

Giordano - Green
Wideman - Brodie
Cundari - Breen

Emery
Ramo

Green and Horton are the right types of risks. They and the prospects need to turn out to have an Ottawa / Montreal type of turnaround. Probably won't happen but at least you tried and are moving in the right direction. One more season focusing on the draft and hopefully it starts coming together.

As much as Im a fan of Emery, why would he want to come here? With the amount of goalies that are said to be on the move next year, plus given his stellar play, I think he would likely end up on a playoff bound team.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Man watching some of you put skill guys like Baertschi and MacKinnon on the fourth line makes me want to punch a hole in my wall or kick a small dog.

Do you guys realize what the purpose of a fourth line is?

Thank you. Finally some one puts its blunt. Whats the point of drafting high, skilled players if we are going to give them crap minutes in a checking role?

When it comes to young skilled talent, its time for coaching to put up or shut up. If MacKinnon is potentially our future, then lets show him what hes going to be going up against. The Sedins, Toews, Datsyuks of the world. NOT the Konopkas.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by bucksmasher

As much as I like Regher I would not want to see his bad defensive habits back on this team. Ya he's a bull around his own net but he makes some pretty bad plays moving the puck forward. I wouldn't want to see Brodie or any other young D picking up his bad habits. Its so bad that teams dump the puck directly to Regher and then steal it back 20' from the goal.

Not saying I would or wouldnt want him, but this team has lacked some one tough around their own net for a couple seasons now. Would be nice to have some one here who could actually out muscle a guy down low.

[gargamel]

The most important things that we can do this offseason are to ship out some veteran forwards so that Hartley is forced to play the young guys, and get some tough/pest/goonish type guys to protect the young guys and make other teams hate playing against us even though we'll suck.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I know I'm counting the chicken before even getting the egg, but if the team is going to go with players like Mackinnon (not even 18 yet, 180 pounds), Baertschi (180 pounds), Horak (175), Byron (165), and Gaudreau (150) over the next couple of seasons, they need to fill the rest of the lineup with some big players.

The first target on the list should be David Clarkson to play opposite of Baertschi and down the road Gaudreau. Not the biggest guy, but a guy who plays tough and is willing to stick up for his teammates. Most importantly the play doesn't completely die on his stick. He's more of a finisher who gets his goals going into the dirty areas and looking for rebounds in front of the net but at least the young guys will be able to pass it someone who knows how to score and not say Jackman. And when they do get into a scrum or targeted Clarkson's right there. He'll likely sign with the Devils before he hits free agency, but if he does I hope Feaster gives him a blank check to come here.

Backup plan, Ryane Clowe. Terrible year, at least with the Sharks, but another big gritty forward who's showed he can score in the past.

And now being a bit more controversial. I think to prevent future Bieska incidents where idiot players know they can get away with targeting the Flames quality players with no retaliation they should grab themselves an idiot goon or two. Speaking of which, Cooke and Torres contracts are about to expire. The Flames have already shown they're not above grabbing players like Marchment, at least now there's a reason to have them. Iginla, the only star player outside of Kiprusoff, could stick up for himself. They didn't need a goon knee hunting like Marchment. Now if an ass hat coach like Alain Vigneault is thinking he wants to give Bieska free range to target Calgary's best player in a 4-2 game with half a minute left, he'll maybe think twice once he considers Cooke's out looking to ruin another star players career. If these morons are going to be in the league, I would much rather have them protecting the Flame's young players instead of targeting them.

For defense, the bigger, the meaner, the better. If that means slowepokes Murray or Regehr, so be it. But if Breen's willing to fill that role, fine by me.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And now being a bit more controversial. I think to prevent future Bieska incidents where idiot players know they can get away with targeting the Flames quality players with no retaliation they should grab themselves an idiot goon or two. Speaking of which, Cooke and Torres contracts are about to expire. The Flames have already shown they're not above grabbing players like Marchment, at least now there's a reason to have them. Iginla, the only star player outside of Kiprusoff, could stick up for himself. They didn't need a goon knee hunting like Marchment. Now if an ass hat coach like Alain Vigneault is thinking he wants to give Bieska free range to target Calgary's best player in a 4-2 game with half a minute left, he'll maybe think twice once he considers Cooke's out looking to ruin another star players career. If these morons are going to be in the league, I would much rather have them protecting the Flame's young players instead of targeting them.

No, hell no. I don't care if this team is 30th in the league but having Cooke or Torres on this team would just make them bad. Those two guys don't stand up for themselves let alone other players. I'd be more worried about those two hitting and injurying our own players during practice.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Poe969

No, hell no. I don't care if this team is 30th in the league but having Cooke or Torres on this team would just make them bad. Those two guys don't stand up for themselves let alone other players. I'd be more worried about those two hitting and injurying our own players during practice.

They wouldn't be here to stand up to others, that's what players like Clarkson and whichever heavyweight they go for. They're here as a deterrent to other teams targeting the Flames young players. The classic heavyweights don't do that, if Bieska blindsides Baertschi he doesn't have to drop his gloves against McGrattan and McGrattan's not going to press the issue. He's too into his code.

Grab some goon, any true goon, and the next time Kiprusoff is run go out and run their goalie. If a player decides to finish his check late, send out the goon to two-hand their top line center's calf as a reminder that's not acceptable. The biggest goal the Flames should have is getting out of the next 5 years with none of their young guns injury prone or concussed. That's not going to happen under the current "turn away and act like you didn't notice the cheapshot" mentality the Flames currently carry. Turn it into an arms race, and let the Flames have their biggest idiots. Or maybe Lapierre is a bit more acceptable?

And I mean Marchment was 10x worse then those 2 clowns.

[Niemo]

Baertschi - Backlund - Malone (Trade)
Glencross - MacKinnon - Clarkson (UFA)
Cervenka - Reinhart - Hudler
Jackman - Horak - McGrattan
Bouma

Giordano - Brodie
Wideman - Butler
Smith - Sarich
Breen

Ramo
Berra

-----------------------------------------------

UFA - Clarkson - 4 years/4.25M per

Trades on Draft Day -

1) Cammalleri to Columbus for LA 1st 2013 (2M retained salary and Cap hit).
2) Tanguay to Anaheim for Ana 2nd 2013, Ana 2nd 2014.
3) Stempniak to Washington for Was 2nd 2013.
4) Stajan for a late 2nd 2014.

To be honest though, looking at that roster, our defense sucks!

[_Q_]

Further to my previous post, you can't just throw the best group of forwards on the ice and rank them line 1-4 according to how good they are. This isn't NHL13, that's not how you build a hockey team. Generally speaking NHL lines work as follows:

Line 1 - Top scoring line. These are the guys that are relied on to score the majority of the team's goals. You need a good play making centre on this line along with two high offence wingers. If you can't find that play making centre, get a pure goal scorer and ensure one of the wingers can drive the play. Guys that you want to play on this line are the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Kane, Sedins and Iginla (during his prime). Those players are the best of the best obviously, so if you can't get those players on your team, a good system and some 30+ goal wingers and 50-60 point centre can work. With that said, the guys in our current line-up that can potentially play here are Cammalleri, Glencross and possibly Hudler. This is where this team needs the most help in my opinion. As you can see, we don't have a centre that comes close to being good enough to play here. Stajan? definitely not, Backlund? Probably not (at least not yet), Horak? No way. Begin? haha.

Line 2 - Secondary scoring line. Similary to the top line, except with less skill. This is ideally where you want the 20-30 goal scorers. This team has tons of these guys. Guys like Backlund, Stajan, Stempniak, Tanguay, Hudler, Cervanka, even Cammalleri and Glencross all belong here. I see no reason for this team to acquire any more of these guys honestly.

Line 3 - This line is actually used differently on different teams. Some teams use their third line as a shut down line of sorts. So think of heavy hitters that can skate like the wind, are good in their zone, can win face offs and can chip in once in a while on offence. Guys like Prust and Clutterbuck are perfect for this role. On the other hand, some teams use this line to develop their young goal scorers. This is the direction I would like the Flames to go in. Guys like Baertschi, Horak, Gaudreau, Barkov/MacKinnon/Drouin should be the guys playing here. Maybe throw in a vet with them to help them out as well. If the team is going in this direction, I would like to see the second line be a bit more of a shut down line than most teams.

Line 4 - This is where you want your goons, your pests, your enforcers, your heavy hitters to play. These guys don't necessary have to skate well. They don't necessarily have to score either. These guys are supposed to play 5-8 hard minutes per game. Make the opposition's life hell and keep them in line. I honestly think, this is where the Flames have gotten it right this year. Jackman-Begin-MacGrattan are an excellent 4th line and I would like the team to have a similar looking 4th line going forward.

With all that said, I think our top 4 goal scoring wingers are the following:

Cammalleri, Glencross, Hudler, Stempniak

The top Centres are Backlund & Stajan.

The players I would like the Flames to develop on the third line are:
Baertschi, Horak and MacKinnon (assuming that's who we draft)

The fourth line I would like to see contains:
MacGrattan, Bouma and Jackman/Begin

So going into next season, our top 12 forwards look like:

Cammalleri-Backlund-Hudler
Glencross-Stajan-Stempniak
Baertschi-MacKinnon-Horak
MacGrattan-Bouma-Jackman
Bagin/Aliu

That means Tanguay and Cervenka are the odd men out. So trade, demote or buy out Tanguay and let Cervenka walk. Also, the first line looks horrible, however, with a proper system in place, I actually don't think this line-up is all that bad. The question then becomes, is Hartley the right guy to coach this group?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

That exactly. And don't forget, the Heat are also a gong show right now. Sven could have been MVP and going for the Memorial Cup right now. Instead he's playing out the string with a bunch of losers.

I agree, the Flames need a complete culture change before they start bringing in the new young core.

How do you do a culture change without a new young core? Eager kids that are thrilled to be in the NHL and are desperate to win seem like a great thing to build a culture around. We can hate on the Oilers as much as we want (and we will, cause f^&$ them) but that seems like a locker room with a good culture (they suck for other reasons, mainly their location).

[Super-Rye]

Do not re-sign:

Roman Cervenka
Anton Babchuk
Joey MacDonald
Steve Begin
Krys Kolanos
Greg Nemisz
Bryan Cameron
Leland Irving
Brett Carson
Gaelan Patterson
Danny Taylor

Bring all the other RFA's back.

Draft Drouin and convert him back to center. Take Ristolainen and Petan with later picks, or find a way to trade up and grab someone else like Shinkaruk. (I'm higher on the kid than some people on this board.)

Sign O'Byrne, Bozak, and Bickell in free agency. Trade Cammalleri, Tanguay, Sarich and Stempniak for picks, perhaps taking on a bad contract or 2 to stay above the cap floor/increase value of the trade. Sign Kiprusoff to an extension. The man is a competitor and I don't think he will want to retire after such a bad season. I think he still has a lot left in the tank, he just needs the team in front of him to play some defense.

Backlund - Bozak - Hudler (Lots of skill on this line, Bozak has a bit of physical play to his game.)
Baertschi - Drouin - Horak (The conversion to center for Drouin is made easier by the fact that Horak can help with faceoffs. Horak is also very very good at covering and positioning himself defensively which will let Drouin and Baertschi do their thing)
Bickell - Stajan - Glencross (The shut down line that plays against other teams top lines. Solid defensively and has the skill and speed to turn the puck back up the ice.)
McGrattan - Reinhart - Bouma
Jackman Aliu (All guys who can bring a lot of energy and some physical play. All guys who can also play hockey so the Flames can roll 4 lines)

Giordano - Brodie (Flames new Captain paired with the Flames best young defenseman. I think they can compliment each other if Gio can start to simplify his game.)
Wideman - O'Byrne (O'Byrne adds a big physical defensive presence that is needed to allow Wideman to play his game properly)
Breen - Butler (Breen adds size and an ability to clear the front of the net which Butler cannot do.)
Smith

Kiprusoff
Ramo

This would be a roster that is deep at center, has some skill, size and energy. While not great at any one thing, they have players that have the potential to be great and with a solid team game, and a return to form from Kipper, could make a run at the playoffs.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Do you guys realize what the purpose of a fourth line is?

The same line where Joe Thornton and Pavel Bure, among others, started their NHL careers?

The 4th line is whatever you want it to be. If a rookie starts a season there its not the end of the world, although I agree its unlikely its certainly not out of the realm of possibility.