Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

Where did you get this?

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/calgary_flames/

[Canada 02]

Craig Button has Sven and Gaudreau as 8th and 20th best prospects in the NHL

Not surprised by Sven, but if Gaudreau is really that high among his peers, no way I'd want him moved to get a higher pick, as some have suggested

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9601

[bax]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I always wondered about TSN rankings and what they base them on. I seriously doubt that they have their own scouts and that anyone who works for them has seen most of those players play. Do they just take CS rankings and tweak them based on intuition?

Same goes with the HF projections. What are their qualifications?

I'm pretty sure Bob Mckenzie interviews various NHL scouts and then compiles the data to put the list together.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/calgary_flames/

How do they compile this info? Just curious because I see Yakupov as the number one ranked prospect in the NHL and can't figure out how they came to that conclusion.

[Table 5]

Canada 02, remember, that list is 5 months old now. I have a feeling Sven would drop a bit....and Goudreau might even rise.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

How do they compile this info? Just curious because I see Yakupov as the number one ranked prospect in the NHL and can't figure out how they came to that conclusion.

I am pretty sure a lot of the key contributors to HF are Oilers fans. For years, I have noticed an Oilers bias over there.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'm partial to Mackinnon, but if the Flames get "stuck" with Jones, Drouin or Barkov, I'll probably survive.

What my ideal, wishful thinking, draft day happening is this. Flames grab one of the previous mentioned players, and the remainders round out the top 4. The next 4 are a combination of the safer picks in Lindholm and Monahan while teams like the Flyers and maybe Tampa pick Nurse and Zadorov because of organizational needs. The next couple of picks are owned by Nashville and Columbus who don't want to deal with another Radulov, Filatov, or Zherdev situation and are hesitant in taking Nichushkin, opening up room for the Flames to move up and snag him.

Chances are he'll just be taking in the top 5 because he's got the size and talent, but like I said wishful thinking.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Canada 02, remember, that list is 5 months old now. I have a feeling Sven would drop a bit....and Goudreau might even rise.

Sure, and not to be taken as gospel, but maybe just a rough gauge of where Gaudreau stands. If he were to be moved at the draft to improve the St Louis draft pick like some have suggested, the drafted player better be a big upgrade on who ever is available with the St Lou pick

[kn]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

You need to realize Drouin has had ONE good season. Take a look back at draft predictions from last summer, Drouin will be nowhere to be found in the top 10.

Mackinnon has been playing at a high level all his life. The Flames can't be so short-sighted in a draft as important as this one.

Drouin and Jones have excelled this season, but Mackinnon is who you choose if he is available, from a Calgary perspective.

I'd hate to be a scout. What does this mean?

Has MacKinnon plateaued in that he'll be very good but not great? Is Drouin a late bloomer with higher upside? Or is Drouin the beneficiary of playing with MacKinnon?

From what I've read, you generally want to draft guys whose stock is on the rise, not falling. Drouin and Jones fit that bill, MacKinnon does not.

It does seem that Drouin is the most skilled player in the draft. One profile I read compared him to Pat Lafontaine or Denis Savard! Wow. Plus, he's a converted center so it's not unthinkable that he might play that position.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Canada 02, remember, that list is 5 months old now. I have a feeling Sven would drop a bit....and Goudreau might even rise.

sven might drop a bit, but dropping him too much imo would reflect an overreaction

yes he struggled at the NHL level, but he's scoring right near the ppg margin that is typically a sign of good things for a 20 year old in the AHL, and he's really a pretty young pro this year (with the AHL being arguably more competitive than usual at least during the lockout)

I'm not saying he's a sure fire superstar or whatnot, but I think he still merits a good league wide prospect ranking

[StrykerSteve]

One thing to note, Craig Button's rankings are typically very close to to how Calgary has players ranked, likely because of the fact that his brother is Director of Scouting for the Flames.

[PeteLFan]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

One thing to note, Craig Button's rankings are typically very close to to how Calgary has players ranked, likely because of the fact that his brother is Director of Scouting for the Flames.

If Todd is feeding his brother inside info he should be punted.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

It'd be nice to get a top flight Dman like Jones, but we have been starved for a true #1 Center for 20+ years and our current defensive prospects are stronger than our Centers.

Disagree on your last point. For top 3 young defencemen we have only Brodie. None of our d-men prospects project as more than #4 guy at best unless one if them really develops like crazy. For young centres we have Backlund (and Horak before he was switched to wing) with Jankowski, Reinhart, and then depth guys like Arnold, DeBlouw, etc. If Jankowski pans out then we've got two good young top 2 line centres with him and Backlund and then Reinhart as a 3rd line centre.

So I would argue our defensive depth is one of our weak points. No top 3 guys projected and we just lost Bouw. C, LW and G are probably our deepest positions in the system.

That said I'm a big believer in number one centres and would love to see us land one. However The argument that we don't need top pairing defencemen as much doesn't really hold water for me.

The only argument I can agree with for passing on Jones is if you think he'll be harder to lock up long term because he's American. I do think it more likely a Canadian or Scandinavian would stay long term.

A lot of special players at the top end this year. People shouldn't fool themselves into the poor historical argument that just because some of the d-men taken top 3 in average years did not become franchise players that it must mean Jones cannot or will not be a franchise player. Jones is his own player and there's a reason why he's ranked #1 by most scouts in a strong draft year. He's a special player with a massive upside.

As I keep saying its hard to go wrong at the top end. Potential #1 d-man vs two potential #1 centres vs a potential franchise winger.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

? They are from March.

Here's THN's rankings, from one week ago. My picks would still be viable selections at those spots, IMO.

1. Seth Jones
2. Nathan Mackinnon
3. Johnathan Drouin
4. Valery Nichushkin
5. Sasha Barkov
6. Sean Monahan
7. Elias Lindholm
8. Darnell Nurse
9. Hunter Shinkaruk
10. Robert Hagg
11. Curtis Lazar
12. Nikita Zadorov
13. Adam Erne
14. Rasmus Ristolainen
15. Anthony Mantha
16. Alexander Wennberg
17. Kerby Rychel
18. Ryan Pulock
19. Frederik Gauthier
20. Josh Morrissey
21. Bo Horvat
22. Valentin Zykov
23. Zach Fucale
24. Jacob De La Rose
25. Max Domi
26. Steve Santini
27. Andre Burakowsky
28. Morgan Klimchuk
29. Ian McCoshen
30. Eric Comrie

Sorry, I was referencing the HF rankings of our players. Given the type of year many of them had I think it should be different.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I always wondered about TSN rankings and what they base them on. I seriously doubt that they have their own scouts and that anyone who works for them has seen most of those players play. Do they just take CS rankings and tweak them based on intuition?

Same goes with the HF projections. What are their qualifications?

Bob Mackenzie talks with his scouting contacts and then averages the lists they give him. His list is usually very good and does indicate a bit more than some lists what the actual teams are thinking.

HF's stuff isn't based on anything as legit.

[VladtheImpaler]

I haven't done a lot of watching (well, none ), but have been trying to read and listen a lot lately. It seems to me that Barkov is getting short shrift because he is in Europe and because of the "ov". Sure he is being compared a bit to Jokinen, but Jokinen who has hockey sense and makes others better - big difference. For me, the two guys who are most intriguing are Barkov and Drouin, mostly because of the "make others better" factor...

[moon]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I haven't done a lot of watching (well, none ), but have been trying to read and listen a lot lately. It seems to me that Barkov is getting short shrift because he is in Europe and because of the "ov". Sure he is being compared a bit to Jokinen, but Jokinen who has hockey sense and makes others better - big difference. For me, the two guys who are most intriguing are Barkov and Drouin, mostly because of the "make others better" factor...

I would say it the other way and he gets a ton of over credit for playing in a "mans" league in Finland.

Not sure how some dope saying he might be top guy in draft is getting the short shrift.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Dorkmaster

Here is what I don't really understand. The Flames have holes everywhere and yet we would rather take Barkov than Jones even when Jones is consensus number one?

Having said that though, I think any of the top 4 would turn this club around in a hurry. Very lucky that we're terrible this year instead of some of the others.

I agree.
I have been following this draft fairly closely for the past year and a half, so for fun I threw together a top thirty list of how I would draft if I was Calgary.

1. Nathan Mackinnon
2. Seth Jones
3. Jonathan Drouin
4. Aleksander Barkov
5. Sean Monahan
6. Elias Lindholm
7. Darnell Nurse
8. Valeri Nichushkin
9. Ryan Pulock
10. Hunter Shinkaruk
11. Alexander Wennberg
12. Anthony Mantha
13. Josh Morrissey
14. Rasmus Ristolainen
15. Nikita Zadorov
16. Frederick Gauthier
17. Curtis Lazar
18. Adam Erne
19. Madison Bowey
20. Bo Horvat
21. Ian McCoshen
22. Jason Dickinson
23. Max Domi
24. Robert Hagg
25. JT Compher
26. Ryan Hartman
27. Morgan Klimchuk
28. Mirco Mueller
29. Kerby Rychel
30. Justin Bailey

[J epworth]

Okay, little hypothetical here. Say Flames draft 4th overall. First three gone are Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov. If you are the Flames you have to take Jones as the BPA.

But we would still want to get an impact forward in the first round. Say we get to the 10th pick and Shinkaruk is still on the board. Do we trade our 2 other 1st rounders (say they are the 17th overall and 29th) for the 10th overall and get Shinkaruk? Would a team accept this trade even? I guess any team would accept it if they didn't want a guy like Shinkaruk and felt like they could get the guy they want at 17.

[Da_Chief]

If Mack, Doruin, Barkov (not happening, Avs will take Jones) are gone then Yes, take Jones. He will be the BPA and we will need a #1 dman, remember how Dion played in his norris runner up year? Jones has the tools to become that and better.