See, the issue is the complete and total bombardment of your immune system. Your body is still in need of rest and if the immune system gets tired there is no vaccine that can help you. Your body just can't keep up...
Yes, there are diseases that are not affected by a proper water system and treatment, but if you could only have one I still choose a sanitary system. Basic water is the most important ingredient for life. Clean water is even more important than that.
I still believe that sanitation is incredibly essential as there are many things that need to be treated and removed from drinking water other than bacterial or viral elements, like mercury. But I no longer see it as a 75 to 25 split more of a 50/50 and only in a situational basis.
In a disaster situation I would want restored clean water before a restoration of vaccination services.
In a disaster situation I would want restored clean water before a restoration of vaccination services.
For the record, this statement misses the point, and its claim is vacuous.
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"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan Freedom consonant with responsibility.
I fail to see what you are getting at. How is it empty? I gave an example of where I want proper sanitation before vaccination.
It's a terrible example. Everybody is already vaccinated. It's a once(ish) in a lifetime thing. You need fresh water every day. Of course you want sanitation first.
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"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan Freedom consonant with responsibility.
It's a terrible example. Everybody is already vaccinated. It's a once(ish) in a lifetime thing. You need fresh water every day. Of course you want sanitation first.
That was the point and no everyone is not already vaccinated either by choice or by accident. I got vaccinated for Mumps, Rubella and Measles at SAIT where as it turned out I was getting a needed booster shot for the later two which I didn't know I needed. Also as Token pointed out most of us have not been vaccinated against cholera because we have top notch water treatment. In our case we would more than likely need to worry about Giardia.
Also I will admit my mistake was not stating that I see the disaster as more a situation like in Haiti. Which is around about way of saying for the most part sanitation first then Vaccines.
To get back to what the OP posted, I am 100% in favour of schools being able to deny admission based on children not being immunized. I think both public and private schools should be allowed to do this.
I had to go to Africa with the United Nations as an UNMO and before I went I had to get a load of vaccinations - which I did. We were required to read the world health and our governments warnings as to what is going on in the county. So I am wondering what these people/disbelievers do when they go to these remote countires for any length of time. The 2 shot I took for rabies for example sure beats the treatment or potential effects had I been bitten (mabe that shot just gives me a chance to make it to the hospital - who knows - rabies use to be one of the most fatal diseases in the world)
Also I had to take a pill an anti-malaria pill - and of course there is a concern about those drugs as well. My friend from Thailand did not take such medication because he (or his doctors) argued he is big and the misquito is small. He never got malaria thankfully - but 10's of others in our camp did and some had to be medically evacuated by helicopter to a third line medical unit hospital) - we were out in the boonies.
As for vaccinations - I am for them and would and did vaccinate my kids. The only thing I did not get vaccinated against myself was the swine flu and that was mainly the result of the arguments they were using at the time as it being a pandemic. I know what a pandemic is and this wasn't one (from what I could see but who am I?) if there was one I would get vaccinated - of course the argument could be by the time it was a pandemic I would be out of luck - no medicine left, the Flames ahead of me in line, and stuff like that.
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I'm not anti-vaccine. I've said that many times so please stop.
I believe that better sanitation is more important as a foundation for modern society and building modern societies in third world countries. It's a one two punch for-sure! For example, money that is used for third world countries go towards vaccines but there is no modern sanitation. The growth of disease is everywhere and a beaten down immune system can't fight it. Period.
I think it's great that an expert for Vaccinations chimes in! However, we also need a voice for sanitation and I'm not taking about anti-vaxxers. Just true experts that have the expert knowledge that nobody has posted in this thread yet. The closest is the book I posted. epub book
Again, if you don't want to participate then don't. Or just say Vaccines hands down if you don't want to go there. Don't be rude and put me into a position where I have already stated I am not.
Do you sell toilets for a living? I don't understand why you're trying to sell us on the greatness of sanitation, we know, but it's largely irrelevant to a discussion on vaccines. I agree with the other posters that you have an agenda to be pushing sanitation over vaccination so much.
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It's like me saying, "Your trapped on a deserted Island and you can only take one meat with you." It's BS because is hypothetical and therefore not really an "important" discussion. It has nothing to do with some sinister plot for taking over the world or something ridiculous. I was just trying to create discussion about a passionate topic. And to help foster that topic I created a situation where it could be real, and, therefore, worthy to discuss. I participate with friends on this game often and it's always fun.
I had to go to Africa with the United Nations as an UNMO and before I went I had to get a load of vaccinations - which I did. We were required to read the world health and our governments warnings as to what is going on in the county. So I am wondering what these people/disbelievers do when they go to these remote countires for any length of time. The 2 shot I took for rabies for example sure beats the treatment or potential effects had I been bitten (mabe that shot just gives me a chance to make it to the hospital - who knows - rabies use to be one of the most fatal diseases in the world)
Also I had to take a pill an anti-malaria pill - and of course there is a concern about those drugs as well. My friend from Thailand did not take such medication because he (or his doctors) argued he is big and the misquito is small. He never got malaria thankfully - but 10's of others in our camp did and some had to be medically evacuated by helicopter to a third line medical unit hospital) - we were out in the boonies.
As for vaccinations - I am for them and would and did vaccinate my kids. The only thing I did not get vaccinated against myself was the swine flu and that was mainly the result of the arguments they were using at the time as it being a pandemic. I know what a pandemic is and this wasn't one (from what I could see but who am I?) if there was one I would get vaccinated - of course the argument could be by the time it was a pandemic I would be out of luck - no medicine left, the Flames ahead of me in line, and stuff like that.
That Swine Flu vaccine hurt like a Phaneuf blast to the shoulder. Holy moly. Arm was sore for 10 days or so, and I'm used to shots. You didn't miss much, heh.
The piling on a guy and absolute bullying him, I think, has been quite unnecessary. You will neither change the mans mind nor help him. You just alienate him.
I'd like to see how many posters here said they were against internet bullying.
This is such BS.
If people are following around to other threads and harassing him with this then maybe I could see that as bullying, but bringing up points related to what he posted is not bullying just because a lot of posters disagree with his ridiculous first post.
Internet bullying is tossed around way too much when people post an unpopular opinion in one thread. It isn't until that spreads to multiple threads and stops the posters ability to post/have his posts read in multiple threads.
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Originally Posted by JonDuke
This forum is a scary place for anyone who has one of those that goes against the popular consensus. That's sad, but cool too.
As someone who goes against popular opinion a lot (maybe as much as any other poster over the last few years in many posters views) it really isn't. There is some posters that will be a pain but overall it is fine to go against popular opinion on here and easier than on other boards I have been to.
Sorry to off OT here but think these accusations do deserve to be dealt with.
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If people are following around to other threads and harassing him with this then maybe I could see that as bullying, but bringing up points related to what he posted is not bullying just because a lot of posters disagree with his ridiculous first post.
Internet bullying is tossed around way too much when people post an unpopular opinion in one thread. It isn't until that spreads to multiple threads and stops the posters ability to post/have his posts read in multiple threads.
As someone who goes against popular opinion a lot (maybe as much as any other poster over the last few years in many posters views) it really isn't. There is some posters that will be a pain but overall it is fine to go against popular opinion on here and easier than on other boards I have been to.
Sorry to off OT here but think these accusations do deserve to be dealt with.
Thanks tough guy! Imagine a conversation in person where a group of people are consistently calling you names and/or poking fun at you. It's the same thing only you can't see the individual.
I'm happy you are secure enough to brush such things off, but not everybody is you. Also, Moon, you are completely looking at this topic from your point of view. Place that point of view aside and imagine yourself as someone in a bullied position. You don't know what happened to that person that day/week/month/year. I'm not even saying the op needed the help but I'll still jump in to make sure people know better because life is better with good conversation.
You're also known for insensitivity and lack of giving a crap towards others so I take your post with a grain of salt.
Your response is thanks tough guy and yet others are bullying? I guess I missed that whole insult is part of being a friendly citizen memo.
People are commenting on what he said in this thread. They aren't hanging up on him they are reacting to his comments. Again if he is being told to leave site, harassed in other threads I agree with you but being called out for having an unpopular opinion in the thread he started is not bullying at all.
As for your other comments about me personally I will ignore them as they don't have a place in this thread or site overall, but I do find them funny considering what you are complaining about in this thread.
I think it's fair to question somebody who has no evidence to back up anything they are saying. If I were to start a discussion with some friends about how the earth is flat, I would be laughed right out of the room. Also, my thinking that the Earth is flat, doesn't put other people's children in danger.
The poster in question discussed having an unpopular "opinion". It's not really a valid opinion when it's wrong.
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Your response is thanks tough guy and yet others are bullying? I guess I missed that whole insult is part of being a friendly citizen memo.
People are commenting on what he said in this thread. They aren't hanging up on him they are reacting to his comments. Again if he is being told to leave site, harassed in other threads I agree with you but being called out for having an unpopular opinion in the thread he started is not bullying at all.
As for your other comments about me personally I will ignore them as they don't have a place in this thread or site overall, but I do find them funny considering what you are complaining about in this thread.
I wasn't trying to insult. I think you are mentally tough. Sorry if it came across that way.
On the basis of your posts over the years I find that you do not put other feelings into view. A sort of "Suck it up" personality. I guess I didn't write that well enough... Sorry about that too.
