Calgary Flames: No Post Apex Plan (N-PAP)

[Badgers Nose]

So Flames are to be an NHL Player Clearinghouse? That is what they are describing with this concept.

English is bereft of words to describe the stupidity of this management team.

I have a serious hate on for the management team.

Their defenders suffers from amnesia. No rational person can take these fools seriously. Just look at all the nonsense from Feaster since he came to Calgary.

I am lamenting what has happened to the Flames and see no light until after this regime is purged. This is a John Ferguson Jr. level mess right now.

[Itse]

I actually do like Wideman. He was a big difference in dragging our sorry PP into a legitimate threat. Having someone like him around is IMO very important to go forward. Just as long as he is not relied upon to also be the big defensive difference make.

[hurtin_albertan]

Not only does McGrattan care about his job and has been playing hard through this dark cloud, but when he's on the ice there is a clear and obvious fear in the opponents. So many times the tension looks to be rising, then Grats circles around giving guys the awkward eye, and that's it. Not many guys want to tangle with him, and I suspect that thought carries over when they're on the ice against other Flames players. I really hope they keep him, especially if the team starts turning into a bunch of small kids.

[Da_Chief]

Update: Laurent Brossoit added.

[iamca]

If Feaster is still around DaChief and neo45 will probably get their wish...except the term might be closer to 4 years.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by neo45

Why not? That 6 mil won't be spent elsewhere, we have no RW that are as good as him, and when the contract is running out he can be traded for assets

Why would Horton sign with Calgary on a 2 year $12 million contract?

Him and Bozak are 27 and both will recieve offers with a term of 5+ years. The extra million a year you are proposing will not make a differnece when they can get up to $25-30 million guaranteed.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Why would Horton sign with Calgary on a 2 year $12 million contract?

Him and Bozak are 27 and both will recieve offers with a term of 5+ years. The extra million a year you are proposing will not make a differnece when they can get up to $25-30 million guaranteed.

I didn't propose that, someone else did. I just said if it happened I would like it, to me it is unrealistic but the type of move the Flames should make in free agency

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can we come up with a single player that would seem to match the undefined terms Feaster has used recently.

What player in the NHL is pre-apex and potentially a buyout candidate?

The only player I could think of that even sort of applies is Tyler Myers, but I don't think he gets bought out.

Seriously, who is Jay Feaster talking about when he says things like that?

So, can anyone come up with a name?

I can't think of one guy who isn't in or passed his prime on a buyout worthy contract.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So, can anyone come up with a name?

I can't think of one guy who isn't in or passed his prime on a buyout worthy contract.

It's been two hours since you posted that, I don't think you need to bump your own post.

[#-3]

Here we go. The best way I see this going down.

Trade – Tanguay, I hope for a young, experienced, top 4 dman, by targeting teams that need to shed salaries.
Guys like Myers (who might be on the outs with management) or
Hjalmarsson (who is just no longer affordable with Keith/Seabrook/Leddy).

Re-sign
Cervenka, $1 M / 1Y - Backlund, $2.2 M / 2 -3 Y - Brodie, $2M / 2-3 Y
Begin, $.75M / 1-2 Y (could just as easily be McGrattan, but Begin I think Begin is the coaches guy).
Byron, Aliu, Nemisz, Lamb, Bouma, Patterson, Breen, Cundari, (2way deals under $1M).

Release/Trade
McGrattan, Babchuck, Butler, McDonald, Cameron, Irving, Carson, Bancks, Walter, Kolanos, Testwuide, Taylor, Larson

Retirement
Kiprusoff

Sign
(Mckinnon), Brossoit, Ramage, Hanwoski, Granlund, Ramo, Lablanc (only 1 of the 2 NCAA free agents being talked about, I like LaBlanc’s progress curve more).

Free Agents:
C:
Go for the 3rd or 4th best guy available, who might take a shorter term (Roy $4M / 2Y)
We have needed a Two-way, Strong Faceoff Centerman since Yelle, Good teams (LA, Van, Chi) focus on that area. (Boyd Gordon $2.5M / 4Y).
D:
Still need to add 5/6/7 guy added. Maybe a guy like Ference could be targeted to come home. $1.75M / 2 Y.
G:
If it’s going to be Ramo get a vet back-up like Emery, McDonald, Montoya, Ellis. Emery would be the best, but an expensive backup $3m / 2Y

Cammaleri $6M – Roy $4M – Hudler $4M
Glencross $2.55M – Stajan $3.5M – Stempniak 2.5
Beartschi $1.425 – Backlund $2.2M – Cervenka $1M
Begin $0.75M – Gordon $2.5M – Jackman $0.6125M
Reinhart - (McKinnon) – Aliu

Byron – Horak - Nemisz
Granlund - Bouma - Hanowski
Ferland – LaBlanc - Elson
Eddy – Jones – Street
Patterson

Giordano $4.02M – Myers $5.5M
Brodie $2M – Wideman $5.25M
Sarich $2M – Ference $1.75M
Smith – Wotherspoon

Lamb – Cundari
Breen – Ramage
Martin

Ramo $1.5M
Emery $3M

Brossoit
Berra
Ortio

I’m not sure that is a playoff team, unless we find a couple guys in the 1st round that contribute Now.
But I don’t think it’s a bottom 5 team.
Still 7 guys in Bold, that are “Post-Apex”. Probably another 7 "At-Apex". But you are starting to see "Pre-Apex" players fill in aroudn them and take greater roles.

That’s 45 contracts,
That Leaves ~$8.25 M in cap space (not counting the press box)
Still Lots of space to add if opportunities come up.

Unsigned Prospects Still in the system.
Augstino, Arnold, Deblouw, Gaudreau, Gordon, Jankowski, Culkin, Kulak, Sieloff, Gillies. + 8 other newly drafted players.

Future
LW- I’m Confident with Beartschi, Glencross, Gaudreau, Reinhart, Granlund, Agostino, we'll be in good shape in 2-3 years
Center, I think that over the next 2 – 3 year (MacKinnon), Backlund, Jankowski, Gordon, Bouma, LaBlanc…. Can form a very strong group
Defence, I hope that is a good existing core, but still needs one or two guys like Wotherspoon, Ramge, and Sieloff, to step-up down the raod.
Goaltending, 1 of the 5 guys will need to take the ball and run with it. But I like not hitchign our wagon to 1 guy.
RW still needs allot of work for the future.

If only the LW and C positions round out, this will be a 6 – 10 team again, in a few years.
If we get lucky on D & G, this could be a very competitive team in a few years.

[Itse]

Yeah, if you're looking to sign UFA's to 1-2 year deals, you better be ready to sign 30+ players or bubble players. Which is not necessarily bad, since we'd be signing them as roster filler effectively. You just need to make sure you don't sign so many of those guys you don't have room for your proper developing players.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So, can anyone come up with a name?

I can't think of one guy who isn't in or passed his prime on a buyout worthy contract.

Nope not me. This is why i think Feasters statement was a bunch of bull and said to appease the masses. If he really thinks this part of the plan can work, he is kidding himself.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So, can anyone come up with a name?

I can't think of one guy who isn't in or passed his prime on a buyout worthy contract.

Prior to this season I maybe could have seen a Vanek fall into this? But now?

Maybe Ryan O'Rielly in 2 years?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Where did such small parameters come from?

Why all of a sudden is Feaster looking at "prime players on a buy out worthy contract"? Because Flash Walken on Calgarypuck says so?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can we come up with a single player that would seem to match the undefined terms Feaster has used recently.

What player in the NHL is pre-apex and potentially a buyout candidate?

The only player I could think of that even sort of applies is Tyler Myers, but I don't think he gets bought out.

Seriously, who is Jay Feaster talking about when he says things like that?

Probably players that will take assets to acquire either through a trade or an offer sheet. If the goal really is to challenge for the playoffs soon I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames were open to moving the St. Louis and Pittsburgh 1st rounders for more established "pre-apex" players. They were willing to give up their own 1st for O'Reilly, so I don't think it's out of the question that they'd trade later picks for guys in their early 20s.

Or perhaps they'll keep the picks but send out next year's in an offer sheet with the justification that they had 3 this year, so they can afford to not have one next year. A bit of a "pre-recoup" of draft picks if you will. With the Flames' current position, a team may be more willing to let a player go via offer sheet.

If the goal is simply getting into the playoffs where "anything can happen" as quickly as possible, that's probably the fastest way to do it.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can we come up with a single player that would seem to match the undefined terms Feaster has used recently.

What player in the NHL is pre-apex and potentially a buyout candidate?

Feaster didn't say he was only going to acquire pre-apex players he just said that he wasn't going to be acquiring post-apex players. You don't immediately go from one to the other there is the actual apex period.

[Da_Chief]

Don't see Tanguay bringing back anything let alone a young dman who still has loads of potential.

Pre-Apex players: Barely fit the criteria, my best guess.

Ville Leino
Tyler Myers
Tuomo Ruutu
Paul Stastny
Kyle Okposo
Scottie Upshall
Guilluame Lattendresse
Makhail Gbabovski
David Booth

Just a wild guess as to some who might marginally fit the criteria. Some of them likely don't get bought out and traded for some return.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Feaster didn't say he was only going to acquire pre-apex players he just said that he wasn't going to be acquiring post-apex players. You don't immediately go from one to the other there is the actual apex period.

And here is where we start talking about defining terms like intellectual honesty.

What's the apex of a player? Is it younger than 27, a players prime goal scoring years?

Is it under 33, a players prime point production years?

Is it somewhere between 24 and 30, a plays most statistically productive years?

Is a player's 'apex' defined by their specific ability?

Is it leading phrasing to specify players under 33?

Is anything that is not 'post apex' pre-apex?

Do guys like Jiri Hudler count? He would've been an example of a player at his apex and not 'post-apex' when they signed him, right?

[Ring of Fire]

Feaster specifically said on the Fan they were going to target Group II free agents (aka Restricted Free Agents). With the cap going down, Feaster suggested players making sub $1 million would be looking in a $3 million ballpark and teams would not be able to afford all the raises. The Rangers for example have numerous enticing RFAs. Feaster would be targetting these players by trade around the draft.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

And here is where we start talking about defining terms like intellectual honesty.

What's the apex of a player? Is it younger than 27, a players prime goal scoring years?

Is it under 33, a players prime point production years?

Is it somewhere between 24 and 30, a plays most statistically productive years?

Is a player's 'apex' defined by their specific ability?

Is it leading phrasing to specify players under 33?

Is anything that is not 'post apex' pre-apex?

Do guys like Jiri Hudler count? He would've been an example of a player at his apex and not 'post-apex' when they signed him, right?

And here lies the problem. We have no idea what Feaster really meant with his "apex" speech. I am sure no matter what Feaster does he will be able to spin it anyway he wants to make it fit under the "apex" speech.