Dreger: Kiprusoff to not move, retire at end of the season

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

First, it breeds a climate of complacency and entitlement. That in turn makes it a difficult team to coach. I believe that complacency is at the heart of the culture problems the Flames have had for the last 5 or 6 years. Too many veterans in secure positions for a coach to make much headway.

To address this point, the coaches have been directly responsible for the complacency of the Flames veterans over the years. If a guy comes out and plays like garbage, floating around and not back-checking or battling for the puck it's the coaches responsibility to bench that player. Who cares if the guy has a NTC or how much he's being paid?

Every coach that has come into Calgary has preached accountability yet none of the "star" players are ever sitting in the press box. That's not how you hold people accountable. If you don't put in the effort or you play poorly then there needs to be a punishment regardless of who you are or how much money you make. If a player doesn't like that then they can request a trade and waive their NTC.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

To address this point, the coaches have been directly responsible for the complacency of the Flames veterans over the years. If a guy comes out and plays like garbage, floating around and not back-checking or battling for the puck it's the coaches responsibility to bench that player. Who cares if the guy has a NTC or how much he's being paid?

Every coach that has come into Calgary has preached accountability yet none of the "star" players are ever sitting in the press box. That's not how you hold people accountable. If don't put in the effort or you play poorly then there needs to be punishment regardless of who you are or how much money you make. If a player doesn't like that then they can request a trade and waive their NTC.

Do you honestly think a Flames coach post-Darryl-Sutter would win a power struggle with Iginla? And if Iginla's whole line is cheating, you can't very well bench Tanguay and give Iginla a pass. And as various coaches and GMs over the years have said again and again, you need a team where the players are accountable to each other - where guys who play half-assed get an earful, or slammed up against a locker, by the leaders. That simply hasn't happened in Calgary.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do you honestly think a Flames coach post-Darryl-Sutter would win a power struggle with Iginla? And if Iginla's whole line is cheating, you can't very well bench Tanguay and give Iginla a pass. And as various coaches and GMs over the years have said again and again, you need a team where the players are accountable to each other - where guys who play half-assed get an earful, or slammed up against a locker, by the leaders. That simply hasn't happened in Calgary.

Probably not, but at the time that is exactly what Keenan was brought in to do. I don't know if anyone expected him to just tap guys on the shoulder and let them do whatever the hell they wanted. With Iginla now gone, that kind of thing cannot continue from this point going forward. The Flames need to set the right example for the new kids coming in and that means nobody gets a free pass.

[JazzyFlame]

Now that the dust has setteled, I will come out and say I hope Kipper gets his great retirement cheer on the last home game and a ceremony.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

Now that the dust has setteled, I will come out and say I hope Kipper gets his great retirement cheer on the last home game and a ceremony.

Before or after you dump beer on him?

[Ashasx]

Just some notes from Hockeycentral at Noon:

-MacLean says the Flames shouldn't have asked Kipper whether he would report or not and should have just traded Kipper without consulting him
-Kypreos says the Flames respected the wishes of the greatest goaltender in franchise history
-Millard and MacLean think the situation should be investigated for cap circumvention and the Flames fined

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Just some notes from Hockeycentral at Noon:

-MacLean says the Flames shouldn't have asked Kipper whether he would report or not and should have just traded Kipper without consulting him
-Kypreos says the Flames respected the wishes of the greatest goaltender in franchise history
-Millard and MacLean think the situation should be investigated for cap circumvention and the Flames fined

LOL...That is all.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Just some notes from Hockeycentral at Noon:

-MacLean says the Flames shouldn't have asked Kipper whether he would report or not and should have just traded Kipper without consulting him
-Kypreos says the Flames respected the wishes of the greatest goaltender in franchise history
-Millard and MacLean think the situation should be investigated for cap circumvention and the Flames fined

You can tell from the quotes above who played the game recently, and who was recently a GM...

I agree with Kypreos - respecting Kipper's wishes here sends a message to players that is a positive one IMO - the Flames will treat you as a human being, not a commodity.

As for investigation for cap circumvention, that would need the player or his agent or the GM who presented the contract (Sutter) to go on the record and state that the intention from the start was that Kiprusoff would retire prior to the final year. Hearsay/speculation won't cut it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Just some notes from Hockeycentral at Noon:

-MacLean says the Flames shouldn't have asked Kipper whether he would report or not and should have just traded Kipper without consulting him
-Kypreos says the Flames respected the wishes of the greatest goaltender in franchise history
-Millard and MacLean think the situation should be investigated for cap circumvention and the Flames fined

Yeah, I saw that. If there is a bigger moron in the history of the game of hockey than MacLean it would be news to me. I keep hoping that Kypreos will finally snap and just punch him out.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Before or after you dump beer on him?

before.

I have not changed my stance, I just believe this is best for the organization and the fans.

[JayP]

Where is the "family comes first" crowd in the Comeau trade thread?

Comeau's wife is deep in a pregnancy (I believe he said 8 months on the radio), but there's no outrage that he got moved for a measily 5th rounder.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

Probably not, but at the time that is exactly what Keenan was brought in to do. I don't know if anyone expected him to just tap guys on the shoulder and let them do whatever the hell they wanted. With Iginla now gone, that kind of thing cannot continue from this point going forward. The Flames need to set the right example for the new kids coming in and that means nobody gets a free pass.

I agree 100 per cent. As much as this is a chance to restock the roster with youth, it's also an opportunity to transform the culture of the team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JayP

Where is the "family comes first" crowd in the Comeau trade thread?

Comeau's wife is deep in a pregnancy (I believe he said 8 months on the radio), but there's no outrage that he got moved for a measily 5th rounder.

And he can feel free to not report...simple.

Next?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by JayP

Where is the "family comes first" crowd in the Comeau trade thread?

Comeau's wife is deep in a pregnancy (I believe he said 8 months on the radio), but there's no outrage that he got moved for a measily 5th rounder.

Sadly, how well the team treats you seems to depend largely on how big a celebrity you are and how big your paycheque is. For a team game, it's dismaying how dramatically differently players are treated in this league depending on how high they are up the status ladder. 4th line players work just as hard - in fact, they typically work harder - than superstars. But they don't get anywhere near the consideration that superstars get, from management or fans.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sadly, how well the team treats you seems to depend largely on how big a celebrity you are and how big your paycheque is. For a team game, it's dismaying how dramatically differently players are treated in this league depending on how high they are up the status ladder. 4th line players work just as hard - in fact, they typically work harder - than superstars. But they don't get anywhere near the consideration that superstars get, from management or fans.

What a load of crap.

Maybe it has to do with Kiprusoff giving 10 years of high caliber service to this team vs what Comeau brought the last couple years?

And again...Comeau has every right in the world to not report to CBJ and stay with his wife....his decision alone.

And to claim 4th liners work harder than superstars? Just laughable.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What a load of crap.

Maybe it has to do with Kiprusoff giving 10 years of high caliber service to this team vs what Comeau brought the last couple years?

And again...Comeau has every right in the world to not report to CBJ and stay with his wife....his decision alone.

And to claim 4th liners work harder than superstars? Just laughable.

You have successfully re-enforced the his point.

Good job.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

You have successfully re-enforced the his point.

Good job.

No, he didn't. You need to read it again. He was basing it on years of service, not superstar status. Then he even said if Comeau choose not to report, that's up to him and he's fine with it.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

No, he didn't. You need to read it again. He was basing it on years of service, not superstar status. Then he even said if Comeau choose not to report, that's up to him and he's fine with it.

Years of service? At the end perception is reality, if those years of service were ####ty and in vain I"m sure the story would be different.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

Years of service? At the end perception is reality, if those years of service were ####ty and in vain I"m sure the story would be different.

Well if that's what you think then that's cool, I'm super happy for you. That isn't transplant's point though and you totally missed his actual point.

[CliffFletcher]

David Moss was in the Flames organization for eight years. He seemed to play pretty hard, and to the best of his abilities. And yet I have my doubts that he'd have been given the same consideration if he refused to be traded due to family issues that Kipper has been given.

I don't expect the pro sports hierarchy culture to change. It is what it is. But it still irks me.