Dreger: Kiprusoff to not move, retire at end of the season

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Feaster just confirmed that the Flames were looking to move Miikka but he informed the Flames he would not accept a trade.

At that point the team had little choice but to honour his request and put the best possible spin on it.

Moving forward Team Management has to take back control of this team. Somewhere along the line the interests of individual players have been placed above those of the team.

That is not how successful franchises are built.

Actually, being respectful to the wishes of 36 year olds who carried the team on their back for a decade, who want to retire as Flames, is exactly how successful franchises are built.

Some things are a lot more important than a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

When Kiprusoff retires, I very much hope it is as a Flame, and I will stand up and applaud what has been a truly remarkable career.

[Vulcan]

The way I see it Kipper didn't want to make the commitment to the Leafs because the way things are going he didn't feel he could live up to that commitment. That's a pretty honest response in my book.

So he wants to play out the year here, I think we owe him that and who knows if he regains his form he may reconsider his retirement plans, although I won't count on that. Having already gone through the process, the bottom line is he or anyone can retire anytime they want.

[VladtheImpaler]

Meh. I guess I just don't see these players as "human beings". There is a team I grew up cheering for - the Flames. I really don't care who is actually on the team, as long as the collective does well. This particular team sucks, and there is not a single player on it that I actually like, so I really care not what happens to any one of them. There hasn't been one since Prust was traded for the second time. All of these guys knew the lifestyle they signed up for when they became professional hockey players. They get millions in exchange for being pieces of meat. Fair enough. Don't go expecting the peaceful security of a municipal worker into the bargain.
I also have no sympathy for the "look what he's done for us" line of argument when applied to any of these players - look at what us/the team have done for him. We've made him a hero and a multi-millionaire, so I don't think there is anything more owed, other than the obligation to honour the contract, including reporting wherever you are traded... Darryl Sutter had more to do with saving this franchise than any player - that's why I cheered for the Kings last season. The individual players are just hockey cards.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Meh. I guess I just don't see these players as "human beings". There is a team I grew up cheering for - the Flames. I really don't care who is actually on the team, as long as the collective does well. This particular team sucks, and there is not a single player on it that I actually like, so I really care not what happens to any one of them. There hasn't been one since Prust was traded for the second time. All of these guys knew the lifestyle they signed up for when they became professional hockey players. They get millions in exchange for being pieces of meat. Fair enough. Don't go expecting the peaceful security of a municipal worker into the bargain.
I also have no sympathy for the "look what he's done for us" line of argument when applied to any of these players - look at what us/the team have done for him. We've made him a hero and a multi-millionaire, so I don't think there is anything more owed, other than the obligation to honour the contract, including reporting wherever you are traded... Darryl Sutter had more to do with saving this franchise than any player - that's why I cheered for the Kings last season. The individual players are just hockey cards.

Well that's where you differ from a lot of us.
These players mean something to people. They represent heros and memories that we cherish. Without these players, there would be no Calgary Flames. Whether its as small as a memory of an amazing play, or something as big as a kid being inspired to pick up a pair of skates for the first time, players like Kiprusoff and Iginla meant something bigger to the city of Calgary then just being hockey players on an NHL team.

[pikester]

I am confused by people who say Kipper not playing out the last year of his contract is a suprise or even allegations of tampering or collusion; his contract & the yearly breakdown has been out there for a long time for all to see! You don't suddenly go from paying a top level player $5 mil one year to $1.5 mil the next unless your crystal ball lets you know that player is going to magically suck at that specific time... or else you don't expect him to play it out. The Flames were not the only franchise to sign players to contracts they never expected players to finish out. Besides, aren't backsliding/opt out contracts like that the reason they were eliminated not long after that contract was signed? He was one of the best & Flames fans should be thankful for what they had!

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Meh. I guess I just don't see these players as "human beings". There is a team I grew up cheering for - the Flames. I really don't care who is actually on the team, as long as the collective does well. This particular team sucks, and there is not a single player on it that I actually like, so I really care not what happens to any one of them. There hasn't been one since Prust was traded for the second time. All of these guys knew the lifestyle they signed up for when they became professional hockey players. They get millions in exchange for being pieces of meat. Fair enough. Don't go expecting the peaceful security of a municipal worker into the bargain.
I also have no sympathy for the "look what he's done for us" line of argument when applied to any of these players - look at what us/the team have done for him. We've made him a hero and a multi-millionaire, so I don't think there is anything more owed, other than the obligation to honour the contract, including reporting wherever you are traded... Darryl Sutter had more to do with saving this franchise than any player - that's why I cheered for the Kings last season. The individual players are just hockey cards.

One thing about Darryl... he did a fantastic job saving this franchise when he coached them in 2004 - no argument there. One of the best coaches Calgary has ever seen.

Bad thing is, he turned around and destroyed this franchise when he stepped up into being full-time GM with the negatives out-weighing the positives. Unfortunate really, 'cause he really could have had a great legacy here, but the Flames are where they are today from an asset point of view thanks to him.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by moon

Seriously?

A few comments about people not agreeing with the decision makes you question how proud you are to be a Flames fan?

Don't be obtuse. He's been called "dishonourable", he's going to be booed by some. It's been disgraceful treatment of him and it's gone much further than "comments about people not agreeing".

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Meh. I guess I just don't see these players as "human beings". There is a team I grew up cheering for - the Flames. I really don't care who is actually on the team, as long as the collective does well. This particular team sucks, and there is not a single player on it that I actually like, so I really care not what happens to any one of them. There hasn't been one since Prust was traded for the second time. All of these guys knew the lifestyle they signed up for when they became professional hockey players. They get millions in exchange for being pieces of meat. Fair enough. Don't go expecting the peaceful security of a municipal worker into the bargain.
I also have no sympathy for the "look what he's done for us" line of argument when applied to any of these players - look at what us/the team have done for him. We've made him a hero and a multi-millionaire, so I don't think there is anything more owed, other than the obligation to honour the contract, including reporting wherever you are traded... Darryl Sutter had more to do with saving this franchise than any player - that's why I cheered for the Kings last season. The individual players are just hockey cards.

Any business that doesn't view its employees as "human beings" and treats them as disposable assets quickly earns a reputation for being ####ty company to work for. The NHL is not a large profession so player opinions are something easily spread.

If I was planning on retiring from my job at the end of the year and my company approaches me a few months before year end and tells me that I am being transferred to another city. How positive of an opinion am I going to give this company if my career ended with, "you're either transferring or you're retiring now?" Probably not a very good one.

[moon]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Don't be obtuse. He's been called "dishonourable", he's going to be booed by some. It's been disgraceful treatment of him and it's gone much further than "comments about people not agreeing".

It's not being obtuse, a few boos and a few comments saying he is dishonourable is a long, long way from disgraceful.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

How positive of an opinion am I going to give this company if my career ended with, "you're either transferring or you're retiring now?" Probably not a very good one.

No. Probably not.
And if I ran the company and deemed it was in the best interest of the organization that you move to a different city to finish your working career, I would certainly respect your choice not to. Absolutely.
And I doubt I would insist you retire now instead either. That is not good optics.
But you most certainly would no longer have any active, meaningful part in the business going forward - even for the next few weeks/months. You choice was not too - and that's fine.
But it would be bad business for me to let you carry on a usual. That is just as absolute, imo.

[sun]

This thread....

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

You guys saying screw Kipper are a disgrace.

On the plus side it's given my Ignore List a workout.

[djsFlames]

The people freaking out in this thread should be the first to go in the offseason.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by renny

I give major props to the Flames today. They could have traded Kipper since he didn't have an NTC. The Flames decided to handle Kipper with a TON of class by respecting his wishes of staying in Calgary instead of dishing him out for a pick of some sort. I can say that moves like this buy a lot of goodwill in my eyes.

When choosing an employer, I always make sure that I'm working for a firm that treats their employees well. I do hope that NHL players feel the same way, hopefully this will buy the Flames some goodwill in terms of signing future prospects or UFAs.

Does that work both ways? As an employer, would you choose employees who treat you well? Would you shy away from an employee who did no more than his job description mandated? What kind of extra consideration would you expect him to show you?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

Any business that doesn't view its employees as "human beings" and treats them as disposable assets quickly earns a reputation for being ####ty company to work for. The NHL is not a large profession so player opinions are something easily spread.

Thanks for helping me figure out what the Flames actually are - we are Kruger Industrial Smoothing. We can't do anything competently, but it's a hell of a place to work...

[oilboy2]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

Any business that doesn't view its employees as "human beings" and treats them as disposable assets quickly earns a reputation for being ####ty company to work for. The NHL is not a large profession so player opinions are something easily spread.

If I was planning on retiring from my job at the end of the year and my company approaches me a few months before year end and tells me that I am being transferred to another city. How positive of an opinion am I going to give this company if my career ended with, "you're either transferring or you're retiring now?" Probably not a very good one.

How many careers do you work 15 years, retire at 38 with 20 million dollars made?
A lot different than the guy who plugged away for 30 years making 60 grand a year.

And unfortunately when you make the tough choice of becoming a professional hockey player you better know what the job entails.
I for one would never take a job that could have me moved on any given day or time. Except for maybe a pro hockey player. Can't have the best of both worlds.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Thanks for helping me figure out what the Flames actually are - we are Kruger Industrial Smoothing. We can't do anything competently, but it's a hell of a place to work...

Ultimately, you have to be a bit friendly as a team. The impression has to be positive or else your ability to compete for players is compromised. You have to convince your up and coming UFAs/RFAs want to stay here and don't take the next bus out. You have to convince the players with NMC/NTC to come here if you wan them...and, of course if it comes down to it, you need to convince UFAs/RFAs (whether your own or ones on the market) to sign here. Not all of this come down to dollars for the players. Some definitely want the stability. Being known as the team that cuts you loose at the best business opportunity isn't going to make it easier to do some moves. I mean trading Ference for Stuart, while probably a smart hockey move had Stuart agreed to stay, looks bad from a reputation point of view because Ference just took a hometown discount to be here...and Sutter turns around and deals him off for Stuart. From a business point of view, that looks great had Stuart re-signed. But it would hurts the ability for player looking at the Flames and think "You know, I would like to be part of that". Not the be all or end all, mind you, but it certainly plays a part in their mind. I mean, if you were a player, would you prefer to sign with the team which takes no player emotion into opinion, or one which actually tries to treat the team as a community to be part of and does its very best to help the players?

To some degree, you're right; at some point, you have to be a competitor and not get wrapped up in the nostalgia or being a fun place to work. Moving Iginla was a good sign there that management understood it was time to stop pretending that the Iginla era will yield playoffs, let alone a Cup and made the business decision to trade him. But you need to play both sides of the equation and ensure that players want to be here or else you'll have problems acquiring and even retaining players. Worst case scenario is players like Gillies and Gaudreau actually become great players, but refuse to be here because the team doesn't treat them well and want out as soon as they are UFAs.

The Flames can't hang their hat on being an effective competitive team like Detroit used to, nor can they claim great off time like the California teams. There are few tools aside from money that the Flames can offer and in a cap world, that isn't going to last long. It seems to be part of the equation to keep the players happy so you retain at least a reputation of being a place that players want to be a part of and certainly part of what it takes to be a competitive team.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

This entire thread: TLDR

I only wanted to add my two cents on this situation.

I will always love Kipper. Period. He's the best goalie we've ever had. Sorry Mike.

I am really disappointed in him this year. His heart isn't in it and he's distracted by his family situation. He's played really poorly for us.

I totally understand where the guy is coming from and I have no ill will towards him. He's done enough for this franchise to earn some love when things are tough for him.

I don't care that he didn't want to be traded. Again, disappointing, but completely understandable given his situation. At this point we wouldn't have gotten very much back for him.

Take care Kipper! Enjoy fishing in Finland!

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by kirant

Ultimately, you have to be a bit friendly as a team. The impression has to be positive or else your ability to compete is compromised. You have to convince your up and coming UFAs/RFAs want to stay here and don't take the next bus out. You have to convince the players with NMC/NTC to come here if you wan them...and, of course if it comes down to it, you need to convince UFAs/RFAs to sign here. Not all of this come down to dollars for the players. Some definitely want the stability. Being known as the team that cuts you loose at the best business opportunity isn't going to make it easier to do some moves. I mean trading Ference for Stuart, while probably a smart hockey move had Stuart agreed to stay, looks bad.

If you were a player, would you prefer to sign with the team which takes no player emotion into opinion, or one which actually tries to treat the team as a community to be part of and does its very best to help the players?

To some degree, you're right; at some point, you have to be a competitor and not get wrapped up in the nostalgia or being a fun place to work. Moving Iginla was a good sign there that management understood it was time to stop pretending that the Iginla era will yield playoffs, let alone a Cup and made the business decision to trade him. But you need to play both sides of the equation and ensure that players want to be here or else you'll have problems acquiring and even retaining players. Worst case scenario is players like Gillies and Gaudreau actually become great players, but refuse to be here because the team doesn't treat them well and want out as soon as they are UFAs.

The Flames can't hang their hat on being an effective competitive team like Detroit used to, nor can they claim great off time like the California teams. There are few tools aside from money that the Flames can offer and in a cap world, that isn't going to last long. It seems to be part of the equation to keep the players happy so you retain at least a reputation of being a place that players want to be a part of and certainly part of what it takes to be a competitive team.

I actually agree with you, I just wish they were better at being competent, as opposed to being just a cushy place to work. Of course, you treat your employees well. I personally don't care about any of these players, but the Flames should to some degree. I just don't think there is any reason for "Kipper is Jebus - he can do what he wants sort of stuff".
What I am really curious about is why this became public knowledge...

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by kirant

Ultimately, you have to be a bit friendly as a team. The impression has to be positive or else your ability to compete for players is compromised. You have to convince your up and coming UFAs/RFAs want to stay here and don't take the next bus out. You have to convince the players with NMC/NTC to come here if you wan them...and, of course if it comes down to it, you need to convince UFAs/RFAs (whether your own or ones on the market) to sign here. Not all of this come down to dollars for the players. Some definitely want the stability. Being known as the team that cuts you loose at the best business opportunity isn't going to make it easier to do some moves. I mean trading Ference for Stuart, while probably a smart hockey move had Stuart agreed to stay, looks bad from a reputation point of view because Ference just took a hometown discount to be here...and Sutter turns around and deals him off for Stuart. From a business point of view, that looks great had Stuart re-signed. But it would hurts the ability for player looking at the Flames and think "You know, I would like to be part of that". Not the be all or end all, mind you, but it certainly plays a part in their mind. I mean, if you were a player, would you prefer to sign with the team which takes no player emotion into opinion, or one which actually tries to treat the team as a community to be part of and does its very best to help the players?

To some degree, you're right; at some point, you have to be a competitor and not get wrapped up in the nostalgia or being a fun place to work. Moving Iginla was a good sign there that management understood it was time to stop pretending that the Iginla era will yield playoffs, let alone a Cup and made the business decision to trade him. But you need to play both sides of the equation and ensure that players want to be here or else you'll have problems acquiring and even retaining players. Worst case scenario is players like Gillies and Gaudreau actually become great players, but refuse to be here because the team doesn't treat them well and want out as soon as they are UFAs.

The Flames can't hang their hat on being an effective competitive team like Detroit used to, nor can they claim great off time like the California teams. There are few tools aside from money that the Flames can offer and in a cap world, that isn't going to last long. It seems to be part of the equation to keep the players happy so you retain at least a reputation of being a place that players want to be a part of and certainly part of what it takes to be a competitive team.

Players care about 2 things and 2 things only. Winning and getting paid. Being classy sounds nice but will not pay it forward in the future. The New England Patriots have been cutting players unceremoniously for years. They do just fine attracting players to come there. Furthermore, the Los Angeles Clippers have an owner that has discriminated against minorities, yet once they started winning, players flocked there. Detroit is an awful city, but people love playing there. Why? Because they win. The way the Flames treated Kipper will have no positive impact in the future. Just another lost opportunity to get something for a depreciating asset.