Something that's still bothering me about the ROR debacle and NOW.

[PantherExtreme]

Trying to give up your first for oreilly shows that you are pretty certain you arent picking top 4. ... A month later they are a bottom 4 team and trying desperately to sink the team to a better pick by trading vets.

It shows that there is absolutely no plan in place.


Tsn, etc. knew this team was set for ~14th at the start of the year

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by PantherExtreme

Trying to give up your first for oreilly shows that you are pretty certain you arent picking top 4. ... A month later they are a bottom 4 team and trying desperately to sink the team to a better pick by trading vets.

It shows that there is absolutely no plan in place.


Tsn, etc. knew this team was set for ~14th at the start of the year

Or it shows that the plan changed?

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by drPepper1

You know what really grinds my gears?

We only have 3 first round picks and need to get 27 more by Wednesday

What would that do to TSN's viewer ratings for the draft?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

What would that do to TSN's viewer ratings for the draft?

Make it very regionalized

[freakinsaprikin]

I guess you could also look at where we are today.

would we be any worse off if we didn't have our 1st, but had ROR and the 2 other first round picks that we have?

I think most people would probably be okay with that. Then you have a young dynamic winger (Sven), a young dynamic defenceman (Brodie), and a big young 2 way center (ROR) to build the new team around. Wouldn't be that bad at all.

[JiriHrdina]

Pretty simple - they were dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild and only initiated that approach when they had to.

[Bertuzzied]

I'm concerned that Feaster actually thought going into the season without any centres was a good idea.

that and we still have the butlersoftest team in the league!

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Or it shows that the plan changed?

In one week? Even if O'Reilly came in for that Cali road trip do fans really think the flames would have gotten points?

I guess they would not have gone to Iggy and JBO that weekend but they would have had to do it eventually.

[Flame On]

I think it's tied in with Iggy. I don't think at that point he knew what he wanted to do fully.
So they go for a rebuild-esque guy, but that they can insert straight away.
A sort of accelerated rebuild "oh and by the way here's your number 1 centre."

That may have had some on ice success, or not. Either way it at least shows to Iginla that the rebuild isn't as bad as he feared. Then they'd know if they could talk extension, or trade.
Just a domino piece.

People complain about the Flames a lot recently. But one thing they did get right was being more than fair to Iginla. That sort of thing goes around. As much as we hear pundits, media wannabe's and outsiders comment on what a joke the team is, you rarely ever hear a player saying anything other than the Flames are a classy organization.

This is why I'm not afraid about no free agents wishing to re-sign, because they really do have a good rep with players.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Pretty simple - they were dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild and only initiated that approach when they had to.

The scary part is hearing Iginla say "if we went on a little run things would have been different"

Thank god we didn't go on a little run.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Ok guys,

Amongst all of the “Fire Feaster” discussion (because there is A LOT of it going on), I can’t help but feel extremely bothered about something that I don’t know has been talked about really yet. Leastways I can’t find a discussion on it amongst the various different threads going on. So here goes…

Can someone explain (or try!) to explain to me how this management group goes from point A to point B in a month’s time:

A) Feb. 28th - 3 games under .500, Flames present a 2 year/$10 million offer sheet to Ryan O'Reilly, which (forgetting about the whole waiver debacle for the sake of argument for a moment) would have cost them a 1st and 3rd rounder

B) End of March/beg. Of April – approx. 3 games under .500, we go into full rebuild mode starting with Iginla, Bouwmeester, Kipper talking with Leafs/Hawks, Glencross rumored, Feaster/King essentially saying they are in full swing on deals

I think out of everything Feaster/ownership have managed to muck up, this of all situations confuses the hell out of me and makes me wonder if these guys even know whose driving the bus or where they are going?

Because correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t point A above still go at the “win now” philosophy and point B the full rebuild? If that’s the case did we seriously just take a 180 in a matter of a month??????????????????????

As a long time Flames fan that concerns the hell out of me. How screwed would this franchise still be if we did end up landing ROR? Would they be trying to re-sign Iginla, keeping a win-now mentality with the same useless plugs?

Is it just me or does our franchise seem lost at sea?

I'm not sure where you get your numbers from. On February 28th the team was at .500, three points back of the playoffs and up 3-0 on the Avalanche after the first period.

Today, they are four games under .500 and 8 points back of the playoffs. There are now two points ahead of last in the NHL. They have a 0.7% chance of making the playoffs and show little signs of life. They traded Iginla's expiring contract for a 1st rounder and Bouwmeester's contract and NMC for another 1st rounder. Kiprusoff is likely going soon. I think it's clear the direction they are headed. It's a 180 from the end of February because the California road trip was a disaster, and the four other road games in March showed they don't have what it takes. If they won the Colorado game and went 2-1 on the CA road trip, they likely wouldn't be in this situation.

I don't see how the ROR offer sheet has any bearing on what happened since. It was a piece where they would have gotten some moderate scoring now and would also help them in the future. I want lots of players like that.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The scary part is hearing Iginla say "if we went on a little run things would have been different"

Thank god we didn't go on a little run.

I agree. I doubt Feaster is trying to sell his song if the flames were in the position that Dallas, Edmonton or Nashville are in.

He had to be hit over the head to concede that the flames needed a rebuild.

It looks like he still at the time of the ROR offer, had no clue on the state of the team.

[Fischy13]

It's quite clear actually. Yeah we didn't move down in the standing positionally, but at the time of the ROR offer, we were 3 points out with games in hand, still in 13-14 or what ever but still "in it". Now, the Flames are 7 points out, still in 14th mind you, but have half the games to make up that ground. Not realistically possible. GOing for it with ROR and 3 points out was a bit of a stretch, but not nearly what trying to make it from here is.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Pretty simple - they were dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild and only initiated that approach when they had to.

That seems to be the most logical conclusion.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by skudr248

Know what's bothered me? How feaster and management have put the Flames in this situation when the real problem that needed to be addressed should of happened 2-3 yrs ago, now were selling all our assets low

Man, this has been brought up in almost every current thread. They weren't traded 2-3 years ago because we were still a playoff bubble team. Management was still under the mindset of getting in and "anything can happen". Did Iggy and Kipper have more trade value 2-3 years ago? Of course. But we were still within a reasonable shot of the playoffs, so going into a full rebuild didn't make sense back then (for management). It sucks that we got less of a return because our players are older, but there was no denying a rebuild now. Can we put this issue to bed, it has been beaten over and over? Get over what should've happened in retrospect, given what we now now. Let it go and enjoy our fire sale.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

It's quite clear actually. Yeah we didn't move down in the standing positionally, but at the time of the ROR offer, we were 3 points out with games in hand, still in 13-14 or what ever but still "in it". Now, the Flames are 7 points out, still in 14th mind you, but have half the games to make up that ground. Not realistically possible. GOing for it with ROR and 3 points out was a bit of a stretch, but not nearly what trying to make it from here is.

Ryan O'Reily is a moved for the future and the current. If that pick was outside the top ten it was a no brainier. O'Reily is everything the Flames needs btw. Don't think he is a true number one guy but hard to argue with what he's done so far. At 21 he would have been a Flame for a long time.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Icon

A) If they could have landed O'Reilly, the hope was to still get into the playoffs, our first would have been mid-round or worse, and the Flames felt that O'Reilly was as good or better than who they could have drafted at that position, PLUS, they would have had O'Reilly now, instead of the drafted player in a few years. Yes, the plan here was to still win now.

B) They didn't get O'Reilly, the team continued to lose games and fall in the standings, owners/management could no longer ignore the writing on the wall, and the long overdue rebuild began. Plan is no longer win now.


Not that complicated to me.

This^

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Obviously you didn't read my post and don't understand the point I'm trying to make either.

They DIDN'T fall in the standings. And they didn't get ROR.

Between then and now however they went into full rebuild.

The way it comes across they would have had a different approach had they of landed ROR then what they are doing now (full rebuld).

At the time they had games in hand and certainly could've gotten back in the race with a good cluster of games.

A month later it was obvious they weren't going to make a run and thus had pretty much no chance at the playoffs.

But O'Reilly would have been a good long term piece regardless. He only recently turned 22.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Ryan O'Reily is a moved for the future and the current. If that pick was outside the top ten it was a no brainier. O'Reily is everything the Flames needs btw. Don't think he is a true number one guy but hard to argue with what he's done so far. At 21 he would have been a Flame for a long time.

I'm not debating it isn't a move for the future, I wish it would have gone through, rebuild or going for it, it would be a nice piece. I'm just answering the OP questions why the Flames decided to blow it up now, when it was clear they were going for it at the time of the ROR offer sheet.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Pretty simple - they were dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild and only initiated that approach when they had to.

Yeah. It's a shame ownership/management was so ignorant to their plight as today's state could have been somewhat better had they at least made a few prior deals. Would have been nice last year though if they would have traded Jokinen and another player or two at the deadline as it would have sped things up a bit and not really altered the team that started this season.