[Trade] Bouwmeester to Blues for conditional 2013 1st, Cundari and goaltender Reto Berra

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Lebrun says that Detroit was in on Bouwmeester until the end but were unwilling to include a 1st round pick in the package.

So while we can trash Feaster for the return it is hard unless we actually know what teams are willing to offer.

Yeah i will admit that i've been quite hard on Feaster for the last 2 trades and i'm not sure i was right. If i should blame anybody it should be ownership.

The Boston deal as far as prospects go is far better than either the JBO or Iggy trade. Even if Iggy had signed the piece of paper, i think Edwards would have bent over backwards to give Iggy what he wanted.

For the JBO trade, in order to get better prospects back from St.Louis, ownership had to eat salary. Not sure they wanted to.

Still think there are many reasons left why Feaster should be fired but maybe the last 2 trades are not part of it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Lebrun says that Detroit was in on Bouwmeester until the end but were unwilling to include a 1st round pick in the package.

So while we can trash Feaster for the return it is hard unless we actually know what teams are willing to offer.

People need to understand that most teams, especially those that look to be picking in the top 20, are extremely reluctant to trade away a 1st round pick these days. With better scouting, better prepared younger players, rules enforcement that allows young players to do their thing without getting smothered, and a salary cap that make entry-level deals extremely attractive, every team depends on an influx of young impact players.

It looks like owing to the NTC and his contract, there were only a couple serious offers for Bouwmeester. And by including a 1st round pick, the Blues was the best offer. Feaster haters need to get over it, and admit that maybe their perception of player value is out of whack with the real market.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think what most people are disappointed in, was that this trade was not a 'win' for the Flames.

Iginla's trade was thought of as a 'fleecing' by Pittsburgh (though Boston's would have also!).

Chiarelli comes out after that in the media and states that "I have never seen anything like this since I became a GM, in terms of how few players are available, and the prices they ask for them."

You see guys like Regehr and Morrow - with NTCs no less - being traded for much more than what people think they are worth. Douglas Murray got traded for much more than what he was worth.

The Flames' 2 best players to be traded have both received less than anticipated returns. Less anticipated by fans, and by media analysts. Were the returns 'horrible'? Well, you get a first in every trade, so no... there is always the possibility to draft well and make those trades more like wins. However, the initial return on these trades is underwhelming. Horrible? No. Underwhelming would be a good word.

Some of you will keep insisting that 'expectations were too high'. Damn right they were. This is the best seller's market at least since the cap was instituted. Taking a look back at some of the past trades and seasons, you would never have guessed it from a Calgary Flames' standpoint.

Will be interesting to see what other pieces go for from the Flames, as well as other players around the league. I am betting they further make Calgary fans feel like the return was underwhelming thus far.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The Flames' 2 best players to be traded have both received less than anticipated returns. Less anticipated by fans, and by media analysts.

Maybe we should stop giving any credence to the value anticipated by fans.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

With O'Reilly, the Flames likely are fighting for a playoff spot.

Agreed, and just imagine if Kyle Turris had also been one of Calgary's top two centremen, 15 minutes of icetime for each line...

Tanguay O'Reilly Iginla
Cammalerri Turris Baertschi
Cervenka Backlund Hudler
Glencross Stajan Stempniak

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Agreed, and just imagine if Kyle Turris had also been one of Calgary's top two centremen, 15 minutes of icetime for each line...

Tanguay O'Reilly Iginla
Cammalerri Turris Baertschi
Cervenka Backlund Hudler
Glencross Stajan Stempniak

If they gave up a 1st for Turris, i doubt they would have given up a 1st the following year for O'REilly.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

For the JBO trade, in order to get better prospects back from St.Louis, ownership had to eat salary. Not sure they wanted to.

I was wondering why the Flames are did not eat salary to get a better prospect...then I realized that the Blues are close to cap hell now, especially with the RFAs they need to sign after the season. Basically Feaster has created an opportunity to "help alleviate" the Blues cap hell down the road

[AltaGuy]

Not having quality NHL centers - imo - directly led to this rebuild. Should've been addressed last offseason at the latest.

The whole Cervenka isn't a center thing really messed us up. Regardless of whether one thinks Feaster should've done better homework, the more worrying aspect is that Cervenka demonstrated Feaster/Weisbrod's belief that they're smarter than everyone else. Or can pick things up that others can't. Kind of a "watch me find a center overseas who you don't expect!"

That seeming tendency has me very worried on two fronts: the returns we got for Bouwmeester and Iggy contained this type of "trust us" player; and secondly, potentially could lead us to disaster at the draft since we think our scouting is so dynamite. If we go off the board early it could set us back tremendously.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Last year, Bouwmeester would have been virtually untradable... he likely had negative value. At least Hartley was able to get him going enough so we could get some value for him. Still, you can't erase that last 2 seasons and that impacts his trade value.

Perhaps I am just a homer but I always felt that Bouwmeester had more value than what most of CP thought. I never believed that he would have negative value in a trade. Any fast, run&gun style team will be able to use Bouwmeester better than Sutter did.

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

I don't think it's fair to call it a conditional late first rounder. The Flames get a first round pick regardless of what happens, and I doubt it will be late in the first round. With the way Hitchcock teams tend to go I could actually see the Blues just missing out this year and absolutely bombing it next year. Perhaps that's a bit of wishful thinking though.

It is a conditional first rounder and the Blues are just as likely to put us in a worst case scenario where they miss the playoffs this year and then have a deep playoff run next year giving us a late first round pick in a bad draft year.

The best case scenario for the Flames is if the Blues have a first round exit this year, which still means a 15th or later pick.

Originally Posted by Icon

One of Agostino/Hanowski also plays center... don't remember which

That is great to hear, all I saw was that both players play LW.

[Tinordi]

I really wonder how closely they scouted Cervenka, dude is slow as hell, no way could you think that he was a viable option at center.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I dont see it. How is that the Av's did not get any better when O'REilly came back, but the flames that are just as bad, would have had a chance to make the playoffs.

I don't know if I would even bother with using logic. Three weeks ago, Calgary was willing to trade a 1st and a 3rd for ROR... now they are dismantling the team. If anyone really thinks there is a clear "plan"... well, don't know what to say really.

with respect to Barra, hey, best in the Swiss League eh? Now if we can only get a coach that won the Swiss League we'd be in great shape... oh wait...

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I don't know if I would even bother with using logic. Three weeks ago, Calgary was willing to trade a 1st and a 3rd for ROR... now they are dismantling the team. If anyone really thinks there is a clear "plan"... well, don't know what to say really.

with respect to Barra, hey, best in the Swiss League eh? Now if we can only get a coach that won the Swiss League we'd be in great shape... oh wait...

This.

I'm still very worried that there's no plan.

Could you imagine the disaster that would have been sending a top 5 pick at this years draft for ROR?

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Perhaps I am just a homer but I always felt that Bouwmeester had more value than what most of CP thought. I never believed that he would have negative value in a trade. Any fast, run&gun style team will be able to use Bouwmeester better than Sutter did.



It is a conditional first rounder and the Blues are just as likely to put us in a worst case scenario where they miss the playoffs this year and then have a deep playoff run next year giving us a late first round pick in a bad draft year.

The best case scenario for the Flames is if the Blues have a first round exit this year, which still means a 15th or later pick.



.

Well actually the best case scenario is that the blues miss the playoffs this year, giving us another 4th round pick this season, then seeing the Blues crap the bed next year and we get their first round pick as a top 10 pick.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Well actually the best case scenario is that the blues miss the playoffs this year, giving us another 4th round pick this season, then seeing the Blues crap the bed next year and we get their first round pick as a top 10 pick.

A full season of JBo patrolling the Blues' blueline could do wonders for our draft pick. He's not a bad player, but the collective results of the teams he plays for sure are underwhelming.

Can't blame one guy, of course, but I certainly can't forget how awesome our defence was supposed to be when we first picked him up!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

This.

I'm still very worried that there's no plan.

Could you imagine the disaster that would have been sending a top 5 pick at this years draft for ROR?

You'll just have to fantasize about it, because it never happened. If the Flames had gotten Ryan O'Reilly, it wouldn't have been a top 5 pick either, probably no better than 7th.

[mister__big]

Originally Posted by Young-Sneezy

the average calgarypuck user at its finest... AHEM

From the [News] Bouwmeester admits Flames have approached him about trade" thread:



So explain to me how a first rounder, plus a d man, PLUS ANOTHER PLAYER is any worse than WHAT YOU JUST POSTED.

seriously, do you just post for the sake of bitching?

I said I was hoping for a return of a top prospect + NHL bottom-pairing d-man.

Berra is not exactly a top prospect. He may be a top goalie in the Swiss league but he has never played in North America and at his age, if he doesn't make it here within the next year or two then he pretty much never will.

Cundari is not a NHL d-man at the time of the trade.

Maybe you are easily satisfied and think Berra and Cundari are considered top prospect and NHL-ready, but many people sure don't think so.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by mister__big

I said I was hoping for a return of a top prospect + NHL bottom-pairing d-man.

Cundari is not a NHL d-man now and he is a small one at that, which is not exactly what the Flames need considering everyone was bitching about Bouw's lack of physicality.

I too am underwhelmed with the return, but no description I have seen anywhere of Cundari describes him as soft. In fact, most say he is a real pain in the butt to play against, and likes to get physical, despite his stature.

I think part of it is that we over-value our guys and under-value other players, especially those who we haven't heard of. This trade may look better when that first round pick is made and it is a guy the team is high on, or if the cap space generated allows the Flames to grab another asset during the cap compliance period.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

One part of feasters story and admitting its not working and it's his fault doesn't add up.

He says the knew for a while it wasn't working and approached Iggy and jay about trades in California. This road trip came a few days after the ROR fiasco. So he's telling us he felt this team was going nowhere yet he was ready to turn a top 5 pick and 3rd rounder into a 2nd line player, and add him to a team that wasn't going to make the playoffs.

Yeah that really confuses me too. Is Feaster flying by the seat of his pants here?

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think what most people are disappointed in, was that this trade was not a 'win' for the Flames.

Iginla's trade was thought of as a 'fleecing' by Pittsburgh (though Boston's would have also!).

Chiarelli comes out after that in the media and states that "I have never seen anything like this since I became a GM, in terms of how few players are available, and the prices they ask for them."

You see guys like Regehr and Morrow - with NTCs no less - being traded for much more than what people think they are worth. Douglas Murray got traded for much more than what he was worth.

The Flames' 2 best players to be traded have both received less than anticipated returns. Less anticipated by fans, and by media analysts. Were the returns 'horrible'? Well, you get a first in every trade, so no... there is always the possibility to draft well and make those trades more like wins. However, the initial return on these trades is underwhelming. Horrible? No. Underwhelming would be a good word.

Some of you will keep insisting that 'expectations were too high'. Damn right they were. This is the best seller's market at least since the cap was instituted. Taking a look back at some of the past trades and seasons, you would never have guessed it from a Calgary Flames' standpoint.

Will be interesting to see what other pieces go for from the Flames, as well as other players around the league. I am betting they further make Calgary fans feel like the return was underwhelming thus far.

Exactly. I don't think we overrated our assets at all, judging by what others got; makes me think that other GM's smell blood and know Feaster is ripe for the picking, and took advantage of it. Anyone remember that Peter Mahr comment 2 weeks ago (or so) that Feaster was going around asking fellow GM's for advice? Feaster goes to Boston and Pittsburgh and tells them they are short listed, it sounds desperate already. While I don't hate the trade, I simply don't think Feaster is able to get the best deal available and we should have another GM.

[you got PHANUEFED]

Feaster is feeding us Calgarians a load of cow pie St.L was not high on this Berra kid what's so ever there is no way Feaster is the G.M at the draft. If I were the Flames scouts I'd be looking for a new team if my G.M said we were high on all these scrubs Feaster has acquired in these trades.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Maybe we should stop giving any credence to the value anticipated by fans.

this, sounds like Detroit wasn't even willing to give the first...and how many teams are looking to add 7 million for next year? Even 5, almost every contending team will be cutting salary. Not to mention Jaybo has played good for about 30 games in four years.