All of your first rounders are belong to us.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You are implying that Maatta would be a better prospect to have than Jankowski.

If there is anything that I loved about last year's draft, is that the Flames intensively scouted someone who could potentially be a 6'4" extremely talented 1st line center - 'franchise center'.

Olli Maatta - projects to be a #3 defencemen tops.

I actually really liked this 'gamble'. In the last re-rankings that scouts were asked to do, Jankowski did indeed belong in the 1st round. He had pretty good numbers on a fairly lousy team in Providence for a freshman, as well as being the youngest player in the draft last year, having to deal with a huge growth spurt, jumping from a very poor level of play and systems into an NCAA program... Jankowski has done amazingly well, and I for one am extremely happy with this selection. There was nobody left on board when the Flames announced they were trading down that had this much upside - loads of skill and size to boot.

Prospect wise, I would much rather have Jankowski than Maatta, that's for sure, especially when you look at the organizational lack of 'blue-chip' prospects.

I would rather have Jankowski than Maatta as well. But they didn't get Jankowski instead of Maatta, they got Jankowski AND Sieloff instead of Maata.

I would not be at all surprised if Sieloff turns out to be a better prospect than Maatta on his own.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I would rather have Jankowski than Maatta as well. But they didn't get Jankowski instead of Maatta, they got Jankowski AND Sieloff instead of Maata.

I would not be at all surprised if Sieloff turns out to be a better prospect than Maatta on his own.

No, they got Jankowski and Sieloff instead of Teravainen. They could have had Maatta and Sieloff.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by jg13

Hopefully 2 more.

then we pick 2, 16, 20, 22, 30

and move 16, 20, 30 for #3.

get drouin & mackinnon and still have 22 overall

I like this. A lot.

And if they deal 1-2 more guys, it could actually happen. I could see another top 5 team being temped by a 3 pick package.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by nik-

No, they got Jankowski and Sieloff instead of Teravainen. They could have had Maatta and Sieloff.

Ok fair enough. Though if Maatta were there at 21 he was there at 14.

And some people were suggesting the Flames should use their #14 pick on him (which was the implication of the original poster I believe).

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CubicleGeek

I can see it now, we're going to load up and centers over the next couple years and we'll spend the next 15 years trying to find a legitimate 1st line winger to play with our franchise center...

This is why you move heaven and earth to get both MacKinnon and Drouin this year. We'll be sitting real pretty if they can accomplish this feat. Our potential future 1st line of Sven, Nate and Jonathan could already be planted in the system just 2 months into the rebuild. Talk about a kick start.

My hope is Johnny, Mark and another future pick pan out as our 2nd line.

[manilow78]

I understand where you are coming from in your response. You want to hit the home run and get the big centre that is going to change your world and make your team relevant. But that is the mistake all feldgling teams make. You can't do it in one draft. You stay on the board and make the right pick. Jay wants to be smarter than central scouting and get ahead of the curve as a rookie GM but it doesn't work that way.

If I am wrong then why wouldn't Jay take Matta over the NCAA college flyers that he took even though he might even lose one before he ever gets a sniff (although I am quite sure these prospects were chosen by our NCAA guru Weisbrod anyway)?

I am dreading the announcement in this next draft late in the first round when Jay announces that "from the Eastern Peoria Beer League, Calgary selects...."

Did you watch the last draft.... how many teams past up on Forsberg to pick a soliid defensive prospect. Didn't he go 11th or later? And how is he doing?

That is why Calgary needs to trade the later first round picks to move up to get two picks iin the top five! Because Weisbrod and Jay can't screw that up! They need Seth Jones to be their first pick to start making the move back into relevance. They also need a real goaltending prospect like Bernier or Bishop to make it all work. The centre (which I am quite sure that a Quebec Prep League guy will never be) comes much later.

I hope to see Calgary become relevant iin the near future as I think their fans deserve it but it needs to be done the right way!

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You are implying that Maatta would be a better prospect to have than Jankowski.

If there is anything that I loved about last year's draft, is that the Flames intensively scouted someone who could potentially be a 6'4" extremely talented 1st line center - 'franchise center'.

Olli Maatta - projects to be a #3 defencemen tops.

I actually really liked this 'gamble'. In the last re-rankings that scouts were asked to do, Jankowski did indeed belong in the 1st round. He had pretty good numbers on a fairly lousy team in Providence for a freshman, as well as being the youngest player in the draft last year, having to deal with a huge growth spurt, jumping from a very poor level of play and systems into an NCAA program... Jankowski has done amazingly well, and I for one am extremely happy with this selection. There was nobody left on board when the Flames announced they were trading down that had this much upside - loads of skill and size to boot.

Prospect wise, I would much rather have Jankowski than Maatta, that's for sure, especially when you look at the organizational lack of 'blue-chip' prospects.

[manilow78]

My suggestion was that you build from the goalie and the defensae out. Matta was just the example as you saw in the Iginla trade (after the 1st round pick) how weak the deal got. My point was that they couldn't even get a prospect of Matta's calibre and had to settle on Hankowski and the guy who can't skate fast enough whose name I can't remember.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ok fair enough. Though if Maatta were there at 21 he was there at 14.

And some people were suggesting the Flames should use their #14 pick on him (which was the implication of the original poster I believe).

[Split98]

Originally Posted by manilow78

I understand where you are coming from in your response. You want to hit the home run and get the big centre that is going to change your world and make your team relevant. But that is the mistake all feldgling teams make. You can't do it in one draft. You stay on the board and make the right pick. Jay wants to be smarter than central scouting and get ahead of the curve as a rookie GM but it doesn't work that way.

If I am wrong then why wouldn't Jay take Matta over the NCAA college flyers that he took even though he might even lose one before he ever gets a sniff (although I am quite sure these prospects were chosen by our NCAA guru Weisbrod anyway)?

I am dreading the announcement in this next draft late in the first round when Jay announces that "from the Eastern Peoria Beer League, Calgary selects...."

Did you watch the last draft.... how many teams past up on Forsberg to pick a soliid defensive prospect. Didn't he go 11th or later? And how is he doing?

That is why Calgary needs to trade the later first round picks to move up to get two picks iin the top five! Because Weisbrod and Jay can't screw that up! They need Seth Jones to be their first pick to start making the move back into relevance. They also need a real goaltending prospect like Bernier or Bishop to make it all work. The centre (which I am quite sure that a Quebec Prep League guy will never be) comes much later.

I hope to see Calgary become relevant iin the near future as I think their fans deserve it but it needs to be done the right way!

Why does the team he's played as a minor for have any negative impact on his professional success?

I've been hearing that Timbits in Cole Harbour are playing like absolute garbage. No one good will come from that hole.



I'm still pretty happy with the Flames original 'ski, as much as I'd have loved Maata. I'll agree that I hope he doesn't make a habit of trying to outwit central scouting, but 'ski isn't the example I can get on board with.

[manilow78]

Are you comparing Jankowski's anonomity to Crosby's? I get your drift and liked your post, just didn't appeciate the people before you who can't see the danger of "moving off the board" when your team needs some real desperate help! I hope Jankowski works out but picking him was a little too ballsy for me. I will apologise to all the previous poster if he becomes our next best 1st line centre.

Originally Posted by Split98

Why does the team he's played as a minor for have any negative impact on his professional success?

I've been hearing that Timbits in Cole Harbour are playing like absolute garbage. No one good will come from that hole.



I'm still pretty happy with the Flames original 'ski, as much as I'd have loved Maata. I'll agree that I hope he doesn't make a habit of trying to outwit central scouting, but 'ski isn't the example I can get on board with.

[Dagger]

Can't wait to see who Feaster pulls out of left field. He's proven time and again he's an awful drafter as only three of his draft picks were on TB when he left and 2 others actually played in the NHL(not counting the can't miss Stamkos he, by his own admission had nothing to do with).

This franchise will be set back another 2 years on top of the rebuild should ownership allow him to draft players. The trades are bad, but bad drafting compounds the problem significantly.

[manilow78]

Agreed! And when you're not good at it and you have an average (not weak) scouting staff then "Don't go off the Board!"

Originally Posted by Dagger

Can't wait to see who Feaster pulls out of left field. He's proven time and again he's an awful drafter as only three of his draft picks were on TB when he left and 2 others actually played in the NHL(not counting the can't miss Stamkos he, by his own admission had nothing to do with).

This franchise will be set back another 2 years on top of the rebuild should ownership allow him to draft players. The trades are bad, but bad drafting compounds the problem significantly.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by manilow78

Are you comparing Jankowski's anonomity to Crosby's? I get your drift and liked your post, just didn't appeciate the people before you who can't see the danger of "moving off the board" when your team needs some real desperate help! I hope Jankowski works out but picking him was a little too ballsy for me. I will apologise to all the previous poster if he becomes our next best 1st line centre.

Sarcastically, yes

But you caught my drift which was just the point, in that his junior team has little relevance. It's his potential and work ethic we're interested in.

But I totally agree that this isn't something I want to see happen often (and was none too pleased when the selection was first made) but was certainly a prospect to put in your pocket for use later. And, to be fair, all the selections made from Girgensons to Pearson that were available to us at the time wouldn't have helped our current position anyway.

The future will only tell, but Calgary is a few years from being competitive anyway. It'll be interesting to see which one of Jankowski, Girgensons, Hertl, Laughto, Gaunce, Samuelsson and Matteau turn out to be the center Calgary needs. My money is still on Jankowski.

But, once again... not something I want to see Feaster making a habit of.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This is why you move heaven and earth to get both MacKinnon and Drouin this year.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Split98

The future will only tell, but Calgary is a few years from being competitive anyway. It'll be interesting to see which one of Jankowski, Girgensons, Hertl, Laughto, Gaunce, Samuelsson and Matteau turn out to be the center Calgary needs. My money is still on Jankowski.

But, once again... not something I want to see Feaster making a habit of.

Just out of curiousity and likely a question you can't answer but do you really believe that Jankowski would be your answer if SJ drafted him and not us?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by moon

Just out of curiousity and likely a question you can't answer but do you really believe that Jankowski would be your answer if SJ drafted him and not us?

No, and for a few reasons.

I'll admit, as everyone on here should, that I value the Flames' prospects more than other teams'. But I also wouldn't have payed much attention to him had SJ drafted him and instead been highlighting all the cool things Girgensons has done.

That being said, I do believe he has a great chance of being the best of the 14-30 class mentioned but it certainly comes with rose-coloured glasses. It helps that some talking heads have spoken highly of his progression, but there is certainly a bias.

Funny enough, I almost added that addendum to that post myself

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by manilow78

Agreed! And when you're not good at it and you have an average (not weak) scouting staff then "Don't go off the Board!"

As someone that scouted the last draft independently, I had Jankowski #1 on my list after the top 8 and was disappointed we were picking at #14 because that was too high to go off the board for him. When he was drafted by us, I was one of the few cheerleading it.

Talent wise, he is basically a Gaudreau type that had a growth spurt. If you'd have seen anything related to him, you would be able to tell that he was all that and as good of a chance to be a home run pick as any taken before him, but with the caveat that if he does hit, he'll be a 6'4" 230 lb skilled 1st/2nd liner vs a 5-9 waterbug type with Teravainen like Gaudreau.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Split98

No, and for a few reasons.

I'll admit, as everyone on here should, that I value the Flames' prospects more than other teams'. But I also wouldn't have payed much attention to him had SJ drafted him and instead been highlighting all the cool things Girgensons has done.

That being said, I do believe he has a great chance of being the best of the 14-30 class mentioned but it certainly comes with rose-coloured glasses. It helps that some talking heads have spoken highly of his progression, but there is certainly a bias.

Funny enough, I almost added that addendum to that post myself

Hey fair and really good answer.

I have no problem with guys loving our picks and maybe thinking they will do better than they might.

As I have mentioned that is what fans should do. I wish I did it more than I do now but I have zero faith in the guys making the picks.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by moon

Hey fair and really good answer.

I have no problem with guys loving our picks and maybe thinking they will do better than they might.

As I have mentioned that is what fans should do. I wish I did it more than I do now but I have zero faith in the guys making the picks.

I think I'd be a schizophrenic mess if I didn't retain SOME faith I'll have fun watching this team again.

Lately I find myself rocking back and forth muttering 'this trade was a great one!' until I believe it. So far it's working great!

Crappy thing is, by the time we can properly evaluate the Jankowski draft we'll forget this conversation even happened.

[djsFlames]

Glencross is worth a 1st + upper-mid prospect. the pick isn't even questionable, he's one of the best value players contract wise in the league. extremely friendly to teams near the cap for next season.

Stempniak gets you two 2nds-worth prior to wed, and likely will fetch you a 1st just before the deadline.

Tanguay due to contract term remaining gets you a 2nd + 3rd or a 2nd + alright prospect. Again, just before the deadline you could maybe drive it up to a late 1st + some roster cap dump coming back.

Giordano should not be traded.

Cammalleri will fetch you a 1st + next year, no doubt. If a team is desperate enough for scoring and is eyeing him right now, you could extract a late 1st and some cap dump player coming back just like Tanguay. But his value definitely is not at its highest right now. So...keep.

Sarich could grab you a 3rd, maybe a 2nd if very lucky on deadline day, I would think. (judging by Murray trade)

Babchuk a 5th-7th, if at all possible. Cap hit not a big concern now though.

Kipper should get a 2nd. I would even settle for a solid, likeable prospect with size coming back instead.

So moving forward:

Keep through remaining contract: Giordano, Hudler, Glencross (if no grade A trades arise), Wideman, Butler (young enough to improve..) Brodie.

Re-sign: McGrattan, Backlund, Cervenka (I think he has potential for a huge sophomore season)

Promote in 13/14: Baertschi, Horak, Breen, Wotherspoon, Bouma, Nemisz (I thought he was fantastic on the 3rd line in last stint) and our 2013 lottery kid (or kids).

and give Gaudreau a good long look at camp.

[Split98]

Glencross is on such a good contract because he wanted a NMC and to remain in Calgary. I doubt he waives it.