[Trade] Bouwmeester to Blues for conditional 2013 1st, Cundari and goaltender Reto Berra

[Karl Racki]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Soooooo three first round picks in one draft doesn't help build a team into a contender? It takes a balance of both drafting and signing free agents. If tomorrow and the next day shape up to anything the Flames could potentially do what the oilers are doing in half the time if you consider how deep this draft is apparently going to be.

Sorry, where did I say that 3 first round picks is a bad thing??? Quite the opposite, I want to build through the draft, not free agency. How can one sentence be "soooooooooo" confusing??

So why don't those of you who think we should try to rush to success via free agency show me some examples of teams that have won the cup in the past 10 years who "built" via free agency. I am talking about THE core pieces of the team coming from free agency, not support pieces. Since my post was so idiotic, there must be many, probably all of them actually, so shouldn't take long.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Maybe he is not a good negotiator, I don't know. I don't consider him a particularly good GM in any event.

But these two trades haven't had much room the way of negotiation, considering the circumstances. It hasn't been seller's market for the Flames. If there one or two potential buyers... there ain't a King's ransom to be had.

Good GM's are defined by manufacturing great returns in circumstances just like these deals. Giving Jay a pass because of circumstances would be just as logical in saying a dentist is all clear for pulling the wrong tooth because it was the last patient of the day.

I'm still not convinced Feaster is capable of pulling off this rebuild but that's going to sway heavily on what happens between now and the draft.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

I miss sutter.

The guy who signed all of our bad contracts AND made horrible trades?

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Giving Jay a pass because of circumstances would be just as logical in saying a dentist is all clear for pulling the wrong tooth because it was the last patient of the day.

More like you needed a tooth pulled and the only dentists available to you are kinda crappy ones.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Use that cap space in the fall when teams need to get under the cap and get picks back for it.

Not to mention all the compliance buyouts.

I suspect the Flames will target Valteri Filpulla.

Maybe Ryan Clowe?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by browna

I mean this year, as in preferring this year. I don't think the Blues make it this year, and while they may not again next year either, would rather just have things accelerated this year in a good draft with a top 10-12 pick.

well its pretty much guaranteed this year if Jaybo is half as good as some of you seem to think

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

I miss sutter.

I miss him too. One horrible day really derailed this franchise.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Maybe he is not a good negotiator, I don't know. I don't consider him a particularly good GM in any event.

But these two trades haven't had much room the way of negotiation, considering the circumstances. It hasn't been seller's market for the Flames. If there one or two potential buyers... there ain't a King's ransom to be had.

We all understand the downside of Feaster's performance, but you have to consider how hamstrung he was with the NTC's. It's easy for kids to sit here and say "oh, he could've gotten MORE." Feaster was restricted with the potential trade partners, which limited the potential return.

This trade, in particular, has to be evaluated from the perspective that the salary is off the books and there's a 1st rounder for this year or next in return. If one or both of those prospects turn into something, it's bonus.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by calgARI

I miss him too. One horrible day really derailed this franchise.

Sutter's reign of failure lasted much longer than one day.

[Mattman]

Is Berra good? I looked at his stats and what other people say and it's not fantastic but it's not horrible.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

I miss sutter.

Not as a GM!

[dino7c]

Sutter is the reason we are in this mess

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

I miss sutter.

LOL

Lombardi + Prust + 1st rounder for Jokinen + 3rd rounder.

Phaneuf + Sjostrom + Aulie for Stajan, Mayers, Hagman, & White

Jokinen + Prust for Kotalik + Higgins

Bork 6 year contract extension

Stajan 4 year extension

Giordano 5 year extension

Oh yeah, bring back Darryl as GM!

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Should be a fun Overtime show...

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Not to mention all the compliance buyouts.

I suspect the Flames will target Valteri Filpulla.

Maybe Ryan Clowe?

They will target Filpulla, Horton, Bozak, Raymond, and Clarkson.

Horton, and Bozak will be targets for sure just because of Weisbrod (Boston/ College guys)

UFA's that are around 27-29 years old.

Plus teams will need to make trades to become cap compliant. We all complained when the Flames didnt have space to take advantage of the Hawks sell off, won't have that issue this time.

[anyonebutedmonton]

I am about to offend some of you...

Jay Feaster attended a top-14 law school in the US. This means that he is likely in the top 2% of the population when it comes to intelligence. It is a fact that he is significantly smarter than the VAST majority on this message board. To think that he somehow made a mistake and simply did not understand the market, a market that he has spent his career in, is a very unreasonable position to take here.

The market is what it is. To think that Feaster just simply did not explore his options is just ridiculous.

The fact of the matter is that this is likely the highest pick we could possibly have hoped to receive for any player. Bottom teams are not willing to move their top 15 picks for mature players. It has of course been argued that the pick may not be this year. This is a risk that we have taken. However if the pick turns out to be in 2014, there is also a chance the Blues tank and we end up with a top 10 pick next year. The prospects are bonus here and someone in the organization sees value in them.

Do I think Feaster is a fantastic GM? Hell no. But, the arguments being slung here that he didn't get proper value for Bouwmeester are just plain ignorant.

The honest flames fan understands that this team is at least 3 years away from playing any meaningful hockey. By meaningful I mean icing a team that has a realistic chance at contending for the cup. Jay Bouwmeester is not the player that will be on this hypothetical team. Neither is Iginla. We have to move forward from this position and these moves have been made so that we have a chance at developing the next batch of Flames stars.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Good GM's are defined by manufacturing great returns in circumstances just like these deals. Giving Jay a pass because of circumstances would be just as logical in saying a dentist is all clear for pulling the wrong tooth because it was the last patient of the day.

I'm still not convinced Feaster is capable of pulling off this rebuild but that's going to sway heavily on what happens between now and the draft.

At this point I think I'm just happy that Feaster has not completely ####ed up these trades. Has he gotten the absolute best return possible? Probably not, but I don't think he's "given our two best players away for a couple of bags of pucks." Ideally Feaster finishes out the trade-deadline and unloads the majority of our useless core, and then gets released right after. I figure that will give his replacement enough time between now and the draft to figure things out.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Karl Racki

Sorry, where did I say that 3 first round picks is a bad thing??? Quite the opposite, I want to build through the draft, not free agency. How can one sentence be "soooooooooo" confusing??

So why don't those of you who think we should try to rush to success via free agency show me some examples of teams that have won the cup in the past 10 years who "built" via free agency. I am talking about THE core pieces of the team coming from free agency, not support pieces. Since my post was so idiotic, there must be many, probably all of them actually, so shouldn't take long.

No need for the sharp retort. I didn't call your post idiotic so carry on that argument with the one that did, I 'm not stopping you.

buy my point still stands, you still need to use Free Agency to build a contending team. Even for core players, if getzlaf becomes available do you not go out and try to get him to build your core of players?

[anyonebutedmonton]

Originally Posted by Jing

I would be happy with that return for Cammy. As for Kipper, just hoping for a 2nd plus an ok prospect.

This is exactly the kind of overvaluation we are talking about...

Kipper is a below average goalie this season. Just a 2nd for him would be an outright steal.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They will target Filpulla, Horton, Bozak, Raymond, and Clarkson.

UFA's that are around 27-29 years old.

They will have the cap space to overpay too.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They will target Filpulla, Horton, Bozak, Raymond, and Clarkson.

UFA's that are around 27-29 years old.

34 million in contracts with a Kipper trade committed to next year.

Filpula: 5 years 28M; 5.6 cap
Bozak: 5 years 24M; 4.8 cap
Horton: 5 years 20M; 4M cap
Clarkson: 5 years 20M; 4M cap

52M total cap, without moving out Cammalleri or Tanguay, or adding on D.

I could live with it. It certainly wouldn't force us to rush our 3 first rounders.