[Trade] Iginla to the Pens for Agostino, Hanowski, 2013 1st

[LouCypher]

Hard to judge this trade today, but I am scared sh**less about what kind of trades Feaster will pull off next. This trade was made to get something instead of nothing but doesn't seem to really point to a bigger plan. I am really not sold on whether our management team is qualified to plan for the future, the only react to the present and often settle for less while promising the moon. If we use our own first and Pittsburgh's first properly and draft good players that turn out to be key guys for us then at least that's a start on the next era for the franchise.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

They told Iggy that he could choose between the 2 from what I heard and he chose Pitt. If I can see proof where iggy said it was Pitt and only Pitt then I retract my statement but I am having a hard time believing that was the case. Everything I heard on the radio today was the Flames gave Iggy the choice and he picked the Pens

You would have to be quite naive not to think that the Flames told Iginla which deal they preferred. Or that they felt they had a deal with Boston.

Iggy chose the Pens. I respect that. Even if it cost us the better prospect.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

They told Iggy that he could choose between the 2 from what I heard and he chose Pitt. If I can see proof where iggy said it was Pitt and only Pitt then I retract my statement but I am having a hard time believing that was the case.

Are you fricking serious?

He had a no moment clause in his contract and waived it to be traded to Pittsburgh because that's where he wanted to go.

What part of this are you missing? How are you contesting this when this is what ended up happening?

[WCW Nitro]

Does Pittsburgh have the cap room to sign him in the Summer? If they don't, and Pittsburgh is the only place he wanted to got to, wouldn't that give the Flames some leverage? I also am not fully on board the well we would have got nothing argument. The Flames got 2 guys who at best are projected to be 3rd liners and a pick that will in all likelihood be between 27-30. That pretty much is nothing. How many guys drafted 27-30 in the past 10 years have had any impact? I think you try to get a good deal and if Iginla walks in the Summer then you're not in a significantly worse position than you are after this trade.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

First of all, that is a whole lot of supposing and guess work.

2nd, at the end of the day, Iginla got to pick where he went. So all of the convincing in the world didn't matter if he made up his mind. That couldn't be any more black and white.

All of the pleading in the world to go to Pitts wouldn't matter if Feaster got Iginla's initial list of teams in writing and submitted it to the NHLPA. He then could have taken the best deal and not be handcuffed.

You claim it's speculation that he had a list of approved teams but Iginla even mentioned in his presser how he was approached about a trade and he was honoured that teams he viewed as strong organizations were trying to get him. All credible hockey sources also said there was a list. Sure, I can't 100% confirm the fact there was a list...just like you can't confirm there wasn't a list. But all signs definitely point to a list of teams Iginla initially said he'd go to.

[Phil Russell]

This seems pretty straight forward to me. Iginla put forward a short list of teams. Three teams submitted offers. Iginla chose the team he wanted to go to. Feaster couldn't do much to alter any of these events and his ability to play the teams against each other, to ask for more, was limited by the fact that Iginla, who could care less about the return, had final call on the trade.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

All of the pleading in the world to go to Pitts wouldn't matter if Feaster got Iginla's initial list of teams in writing and submitted it to the NHLPA. He then could have taken the best deal and not be handcuffed.

You claim it's speculation that he had a list of approved teams but Iginla even mentioned in his presser how he was approached about a trade and he was honoured that teams he viewed as strong organizations were trying to get him. All credible hockey sources also said there was a list. Sure, I can't 100% confirm the fact there was a list...just like you can't confirm there wasn't a list. But all signs definitely point to a list of teams Iginla initially said he'd go to.

This is black and white... when a deal is reached Iginla has to officially waive his no movement clause to approve it. Meaning, he has final say in where he goes.

The Flames and Boston reached an agreement, but Iginla did not approve it because he wanted to go to Pittsburgh.

I am astounded there are a handful of people not understanding this....

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

They told Iggy that he could choose between the 2 from what I heard and he chose Pitt. If I can see proof where iggy said it was Pitt and only Pitt then I retract my statement but I am having a hard time believing that was the case. Everything I heard on the radio today was the Flames gave Iggy the choice and he picked the Pens

Show me the proof where Iggy was presented with 2 offers and was told to make a choice. From what I've heard, Charelli and Feaster had a deal, went to Iggy with it and he said he'd only waive for Pittsburgh, so Feaster only had 1 option and no leverage. If Feaster wasn't a classy guy (or wanted to lose his job) he'd probably say he's a little frustrated than Iggy reneged on his 4 team list and due to that, he had to take what Pittsburgh would give.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

lol, this is getting almost comical.

Do you understand what a no-movement clause is?

Iginla has the final say in signing off on the trade, and ultimately decided he wanted to go to Pittsburgh.

You are outright wrong. Iginla said he wanted to go to Pittsburgh. The Flames said that is what he chose and they honoured his wishes. Boston confirmed they were told it was Iginla's choice to go with the Pens.

Give it up. You're incorrect. Jarome Iginla had a no-movment clause and had the final say in where he went. Period.

So all along there was only 1 team Iggy wanted to go to? I understand what a no trade is but I also was under the impression that there was a list of 4 teams he was willing to waive for. You are basically saying there was 1 team on that list. No kidding he had final say but when he approved the list it can be assumed that he agreed to waive for those teams. You seem to be arguing there was only 1 team he was willing to waive for which is speculation on your part

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So all along there was only 1 team Iggy wanted to go to? I understand what a no trade is but I also was under the impression that there was a list of 4 teams he was willing to waive for. You are basically saying there was 1 team on that list. No kidding he had final say but when he approved the list it can be assumed that he agreed to waive for those teams. You seem to be arguing there was only 1 team he was willing to waive for which is speculation on your part

Ugh, yes there were four teams he MIGHT waive his NMC for. But in the end, there was only one he DID choose to. He wants to win, Pittsburgh looks like a juggernaut now. Easy choice, no?

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Phil Russell

This seems pretty straight forward to me. Iginla put forward a short list of teams. Three teams submitted offers. Iginla chose the team he wanted to go to. Feaster couldn't do much to alter any of these events and his ability to play the teams against each other, to ask for more, was limited by the fact that Iginla, who could care less about the return, had final call on the trade.

Except that if Feaster submitted that short list of teams to the NHLPA right off the bat then he could have traded Iginla to any of those teams and not need Iginla's sign-off. Instead, by just doing everything informally, he got into this whole mess where he worked out a deal with the Bruins then Iginla changed his mind about what teams he'd accept a trade to.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So all along there was only 1 team Iggy wanted to go to? I understand what a no trade is but I also was under the impression that there was a list of 4 teams he was willing to waive for. You are basically saying there was 1 team on that list. No kidding he had final say but when he approved the list it can be assumed that he agreed to waive for those teams. You seem to be arguing there was only 1 team he was willing to waive for which is speculation on your part

I think the line of thought is that the Penguins positioned themselves in a position that, when Feaster came up to Iginla, he'd change his mind.

I imagine something like this played out (though this is all speculation):
Feaster: Hey Iginla. We've got a nice trade for you line up. It's to Boston.
Iginla: Cool. Are there any other offers?
Feaster: Well, LA said they were out, but Pittsburgh made a pitch as well. It's not our favourite though and we'd really like it if you'd go to Boston.
Iginla: How much worse is it?
Feaster: Not disastrously worse.
Iginla: I'd like to take the trade to Pittsburgh, as long as it's available.
Feaster: Really, I'd prefer to get Boston's offer...
Iginla: If both trade options are actually available, I'd use my NMC then.
Feaster: Pittsburgh it is.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

This is black and white... when a deal is reached Iginla has to officially waive his no movement clause to approve it. Meaning, he has final say in where he goes.

The Flames and Boston reached an agreement, but Iginla did not approve it because he wanted to go to Pittsburgh.

I am astounded there are a handful of people not understanding this....

Incorrect. If Iginla and Feaster agree to a list of teams he'll accept a trade to and submit that signed list to the NHLPA, then that officially modifies his NTC and allows the GM to trade him to any of those teams. No "officially waiving" once the deal is reached, the formality was already taken care of.

[Psytic]

Iginla said in his press conference he wanted to make sure the deals were close and also that he had NO IDEA who the players were (outside of names) we were getting back. So for all intents and purposes he thought the deals were equal and went with PITT cause they are the favorite to win the cup. He wasn't intentionally out to screw the Flames.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So all along there was only 1 team Iggy wanted to go to? I understand what a no trade is but I also was under the impression that there was a list of 4 teams he was willing to waive for. You are basically saying there was 1 team on that list. No kidding he had final say but when he approved the list it can be assumed that he agreed to waive for those teams. You seem to be arguing there was only 1 team he was willing to waive for which is speculation on your part

No, I'm arguing he decided to go to Pitsburgh because that's what happened.

You seem to be suggesting he agreed to go to any of four teams and then somehow went back on it. That's a huge leap on your part, and entirely speculation. It can most certianly NOT be assumed that he told anyone "just trade me to one of these four teams and it's all good". That couldn't be more of a stretch to assume that in this situation.

At the end of the day the only facts we know are:

- Iginla had a no moment clause effectively controlling where he was traded

- Despite the Flames and Boston reaching an agreement Iginla turned it down because he wanted to play in Pittsburgh

- Iginla ended up in Pittsburgh because that's where he wanted to be

The much more logical assumption would be that he would consider going to four teams and ultimately decided on going where he ultimately waived his NMC to go... Pittsburgh. 100% his choice as per his contracted no movement clause.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Incorrect. If Iginla and Feaster agree to a list of teams he'll accept a trade to and submit that signed list to the NHLPA, then that officially modifies his NTC and allows the GM to trade him to any of those teams. No "officially waiving" once the deal is reached, the formality was already taken care of.

Really? So then how did he end up in Pittsburgh when Boston and Calgary agreed on a trade?

Answer: because he had final say in where he was moved.

You're incorrect.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Incorrect. If Iginla and Feaster agree to a list of teams he'll accept a trade to and submit that signed list to the NHLPA, then that officially modifies his NTC and allows the GM to trade him to any of those teams. No "officially waiving" once the deal is reached, the formality was already taken care of.

And you have evidence that any such list was submitted to the NHLPA such as to formally modify his NMC? We have speculation that he submitted a list to the Flames that he would consider, not that he formally waived his no-movement to those four teams.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

I am astounded there are a handful of people not understanding this....

I am none too surprised to have to be typing this to you, as it seems that certain things are somewhat difficult for you to understand.

I am balking at the process because of the return we got.

1) Iginla is consulted about a list of teams he might be willing to go to
2) Meehan submits the list to Feaster and leaks some information to the press
3) Feaster assembles 2 mediocre offers from the major players - Pitts and Boston, lets Iginla pick which one he would prefer
4) Feaster leads Boston on and tells Pitts that "Iginla really wants to be a Penguin"
5) Feaster accepts a trade with the Pens.

If you honestly don't see anything wrong with this process - I'd be happy to inform you exactly how Feaster messed up.

[Phanuthier]

Not that I want to get in the way of Captain Obvious's rage, but Chiarrelli said that when Feaster contacted him a month ago, he said Boston was on the short list (didn't say how many were on the list) of teams Iginla would accept. Iginla had said that yesterday, he was brought with 2 options (Boston, Pitts) and said that if both teams offered returns that the Flames liked, he liked what Pitts offered (didn't comment on Boston). I have no problem with laying all the cards on the table for Jarome, as he has been a loyal employee for a long time; but if the Flames really wanted to maximize return and not tell him that Pittsburg's return was acceptable, he would have been dealt to Boston.

I actually prefer the road the Flames took (with Pittsburgh)... the return sucks, but I'm happy Iginla gets to go to where he wants.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Except that if Feaster submitted that short list of teams to the NHLPA right off the bat then he could have traded Iginla to any of those teams and not need Iginla's sign-off. Instead, by just doing everything informally, he got into this whole mess where he worked out a deal with the Bruins then Iginla changed his mind about what teams he'd accept a trade to.

We don't know the nature of Iginla's statements to the team. What if it just said "I'd consider waiving to go to LA, BOS, PIT"? There's no proof that he'd actually waive then.

This would only matter if we knew Iginla's statements to Feaster and company were "I waive my NMC to go to these teams:"