[Trade] Iginla to the Pens for Agostino, Hanowski, 2013 1st

[Ned Braden]

Originally Posted by dino7c

such a dumb argument...it doesn't matter where a player is picked

Exactly. In terms of their subsequent performance -- and that, not their draft position, is what actually matters -- it's not obvious that the Bruin prospects were better than the Pittsburgh ones.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Yeah he seemed to understand the situation.


It's to bad because the Boston trade was what i thought Iggy was worth. Once Iggy told feaster he wanted to go to Pitt, the odds of getting a return like Boston's was near 0.

Not hard to imagine when Feaster called Shero to negotiate at the late stages, that Shero knew what was up and had the flames bent over a barell.

At some point Feaster has to call Iginla's bluff though. Yes, Iginla needs to be involved and has the NMC, but is he really going to turn the Bruins down and risk potentially not get traded at all after being put through this process?

Feaster needs to simply tell Iginla that they have an acceptable package with the Bruins lined up and what Pittsburgh is offering simply isn't enough that they're willing to consider it right now. It puts the ball in Iginla's court and I highly doubt he turns down the Bruins in that scenario.

The Flames just seemed too concerned with making Iginla as happy as possible when the guy is already out the door. They were already doing right by him keeping him heavily involved, but at some point the team comes first.

[Cole436]

Our whole hockey Op's management needs to go.
It should have never gotten to this point.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by liamenator

You're moving goalposts. You originally accused me of 'reaching to point fingers' in suggesting the Flames made a mistake in refusing Chiarelli's request to speak to Iginla, that this order may very well have come from Iginla and Meehan. I've just demonstrated it is not at all a reach to conclude that the refusal was in fact made by the Flames. All signs point toward this being the case, incl. numerous media reports. In fact, Chiarelli's note about 'it's allowed if permission is granted' virtually confirms it was the Flames that rebuffed him, since agents don't grant permission, teams do.

Whether there was an order to refuse such requests came from Meehan and Iginla is purely speculative, and irrelevant to my claim about it being a mistake on Feaster's part, since he would have been under no obligation to respect their wishes.

Moving goalposts? I've simply pointed out that you have no idea who made the call to not discuss with the Bruins. That's a fact, plain and simple. You can try to argue otherwise all you want.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Chiarelli made it clear, the 1st rounder was not conditional

Meh, I still think the two offers were pretty similar from a risk/reward standpoint.

Yes Kocholchev looks better at the moment. But Bartkowski doesn't look like he's guaranteed to pan out to anything. So two 2nd/3rd line maybes vs. a 1st/2nd maybe and a maybe not at all... meh.

Doesn't change the fact that the place Iginla wanted to go was Pittsburgh. That's the bottom line.

[Ned Braden]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

And frankly, this organization's history with young players has given me zero reason to believe they found some diamonds in the rough here.

Yeah, there's no chance a team that got Johnny Gaudreau in the 4th round might spot a hidden gem in the NCAA.

If DOoug Risebrough was still the GM this would be a persuasive argument. You may have noticed that over the last couple years their drafting has gotten noticably better. I have no idea what the fact that they had terrible player development in the 90s has to do with anything.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by JayP

At some point Feaster has to call Iginla's bluff though. Yes, Iginla needs to be involved and has the NMC, but is he really going to turn the Bruins down and risk potentially not get traded at all after being put through this process?

Feaster needs to simply tell Iginla that they have an acceptable package with the Bruins lined up and what Pittsburgh is offering simply isn't enough that they're willing to consider it right now. It puts the ball in Iginla's court and I highly doubt he turns down the Bruins in that scenario.

The Flames just seemed too concerned with making Iginla as happy as possible when the guy is already out the door. They were already doing right by him keeping him heavily involved, but at some point the team comes first.

Which opens you up to the risk that Iginla says 'well in that case I'll just play out the year here' and you wind up with nothing. What's his loss? Instead of going to a contender now he goes to one next season. This isn't like Bourque where it was questionable if there would be another season, Iginla has a few years left.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by JayP

At some point Feaster has to call Iginla's bluff though. Yes, Iginla needs to be involved and has the NMC, but is he really going to turn the Bruins down and risk potentially not get traded at all after being put through this process?

Feaster needs to simply tell Iginla that they have an acceptable package with the Bruins lined up and what Pittsburgh is offering simply isn't enough that they're willing to consider it right now. It puts the ball in Iginla's court and I highly doubt he turns down the Bruins in that scenario.

The Flames just seemed too concerned with making Iginla as happy as possible when the guy is already out the door. They were already doing right by him keeping him heavily involved, but at some point the team comes first.

Won't disagree with what you said, and its probably what i would have done. Granted i have no class or honour.

Flames ownership did the honourable thing, by giving a player that has done so much for them and the city what he wanted.

[Stay Golden]

Gold bar for un-cashable junk bonds.

[Kool Keef]

Originally Posted by JayP

At some point Feaster has to call Iginla's bluff though. Yes, Iginla needs to be involved and has the NMC, but is he really going to turn the Bruins down and risk potentially not get traded at all after being put through this process?

What bluff? Iginla is a UFA at the end of the season. The worst that can happen is that he plays out the string for a month and moves on. The Flames could have exerted more pressure had they approached him two seasons ago, but they didn't. The Flames had very little leverage here and the return reflects that.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by valo403

Moving goalposts? I've simply pointed out that you have no idea who made the call to not discuss with the Bruins. That's a fact, plain and simple. You can try to argue otherwise all you want.

When the word 'permission' is deployed it can only have been the team that made the call. No other entity has the authority to grant permission in the official capacity being discussed by Chiarelli. This is the only fact we can speak of.

I now know what banging one's head against a wall feels like.

[Stay Golden]

Yesterday March 27th a day that will live in infamy for this Flames Fan.
Its not fun or joyful to be a Flames fan today.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Ned Braden

Yeah, there's no chance a team that got Johnny Gaudreau in the 4th round might spot a hidden gem in the NCAA.

If DOoug Risebrough was still the GM this would be a persuasive argument. You may have noticed that over the last couple years their drafting has gotten noticably better. I have no idea what the fact that they had terrible player development in the 90s has to do with anything.

No, I haven't noticed that, and neither have you. Every freaking year people say the exact same thing "our drafting is better now" and when you fast forward a couple of years, you see that it is just as crappy as it has been for the past 2 decades. Of course, by that point, people are talking about how the most recent drafting is better and the cycle continues. Until we see some actual results, people need to stop saying that our drafting is better, because it still looks pretty poor to me.

[Coach]

I like the people saying the prospects may never play in the NHL like its a valid argument against the trade. MacKinnon also MAY never play in the NHL. Same with Jones. Would anyone have guessed arguably our best prospect would come in the form of a 5'6 130 lb 4th round pick?

Prospects come out of nowhere all the time. No one knew who Horak was before he came over either.

[Psytic]

There is the possibility that since the Flames done him a solid he comes back around 38-40ish in a 3rd or 4th line roll if the Flames some how manage to turn this ship around and are in contention.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by liamenator

When the word 'permission' is deployed it can only have been the team that made the call. No other entity has the authority to grant permission in the official capacity being discussed by Chiarelli. This is the only fact we can speak of.

I now know what banging one's head against a wall feels like.

Anyone can deny permission. Iginla can say 'no, I will not speak to them'. This is an off the cuff comment from PC, not a deposition, who knows what he meant. My point continues to be that people are trying to pick apart every little thing and lob criticism based upon incomplete information.

[Enoch Root]

To those suggesting that Chiarelli should have been allowed to talk to Iginla:

If they allow Chiarelli, they have to allow the others, and at that point, no advantage to the Boston deal.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To those suggesting that Chiarelli should have been allowed to talk to Iginla:

If they allow Chiarelli, they have to allow the others, and at that point, no advantage to the Boston deal.

And Iginla probably didn't want to talk to him as his mind was pretty set.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by liamenator

Chiarelli reported that the deal had been agreed upon. So, the Flames obviously didn't feel they were being low-balled, or that they needed to stick it to the Bruins in any way. When a deal is in place, that generally means substantive negotiations are over, so everything you are saying is totally irrelevant to this specific instance.

Chiarelli is a clown and a spoiled brat. He knows full well that any agreement with Feaster (assuming their was one at all) was dependent on Iggy's aproval. He's just trying to do damage control now, because he let his main competitors, the Penguins, walk away with the biggest fish this trade deadline. His actions this morning have been totally unprofessional. Especially coming from a GM with a history of gauging other GMs.

I'm tired of this expectation of courteousness from the Flames. It does not seem to be, in any way, a two way street, from players or the other GMs. The NHL is big business now, you treat a negotiation like business.

Chiarelli played a game. He lost. He should move on in a professional manner. He came to his senses with the press conference, but the comments from earlier in the day should not have been made by someone in his position.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Robbob

And Iginla probably didn't want to talk to him as his mind was pretty set.

Yeah, really. I think it's pretty apparent that Feaster was somewhat of a middle man here.

Chiarelli to Feaster: "Can I speak to Iginla to sell him on Boston?"

Feaster to Iginla/Meehan: "Will you meet with Boston? No? Ok..."

Feaster to Chiarelli: "No."