You could go through a list of prospects on every team in the NHL and say here is bunch of potential NHLers and this guy looks poised to make a difference but it never quite works out that way unfortunately. I think we should just temper our expectations. for all we know Backlund is the new Hemsky. Bart cant translate his game to the NHL. Neimz ends up a 4th liner. Our goalies end up like Mcelhinney. You just never know. Its really 50/50 if a draft or two makes a difference. If it wasn't, than the Oilers would be cup contenders right now.
I am confused, no where in my post did I say that we had a guaranteed thing, potential NHLers, a chance to make a difference, chance to turn things around. You essentially just took what I said and turned it around. Expectations are tempered, but they shouldn't be at null. The Flames have done a good job of drafting players that are having success at their junior level right now. We shouldn't plan the parade, but we shouldn't deny the chance these kids can make the NHL AND contribute
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
Nichushkin is playing in the KHL and Barkov in the SM-ligaa. Personally I see them as being more ready since they are playing against men/ ex- NHLers already. I don't know much about Nichushkin though admittedly or if he is a flight risk. Barkov is a bit slow from what I have seen so I think that is his red flag unless he can pull a Thornton or Kopitar and work through it (those two aren't fast either) and with Drouin you always have to worry if that flash can translate to the Bigger NHL or if he will get smothered. Still some question marks with all these guys really.
Personally I suspect it's likely offensive upside more than skating that puts Barkov behind the other two forwards. There's nothing awkward about his skating. Big ice, big body, style of play compared to junior game are also things to consider when comparing players. He won't ever explode up the ice like a 6'0 winger, it's not his game at all, but it's not the case that it's a glaring weakness.
Adjusting to the higher tempo in NA is an another issue. That's just the transition and has a lot to do with lack of space and the speed of the puck. Skating-wise, I don't see why he wouldn't "pull a Thornton or Kopitar."
Button has his skating at 4/5 in the clip I linked to earlier. Another clip taken from the Barkov thread at Hfboards (at 17 seconds) should show that while he's not a speedster, he's also not a prospect with skating issues.
I am confused, no where in my post did I say that we had a guaranteed thing, potential NHLers, a chance to make a difference, chance to turn things around. You essentially just took what I said and turned it around. Expectations are tempered, but they shouldn't be at null. The Flames have done a good job of drafting players that are having success at their junior level right now. We shouldn't plan the parade, but we shouldn't deny the chance these kids can make the NHL AND contribute
That's exactly What I just wrote "50/50" chance of turning out. I don't see where the disagreement is.
last big American Dmen selected first was Eric Johnson.. Toews was taken after him. Toews has shown he was the better option. I would go with the Center and myself.
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Not sure why people are adding Hedman to a list like that. He's looking very good and long-term is likely just as good as he was projected to be.
I'm like Tinordi - I think Jones is something truly special - and therefore can't be compared to past drafts.
You win cups with guys like Pronger and Lindstrom. They can carry teams. I see Jones having the potential to be one of the best dmen of this era.
I think that there is more chance of him being a top pairing D than a generational talent personally. If he was that good than there wouldn't even be discussions between people if he was the number 1 pick or not by any team. You would just pick him. Historically dman picked high, even if they are good still don't tend to be as good as the forwards picked in the top 5. There is less risk getting a forward.
last big American Dmen selected first was Eric Johnson.. Toews was taken after him. Toews has shown he was the better option. I would go with the Center and myself.
Great example. So were Staal, Backstrom and Kessel, arguably all better and enjoyed more success than Johnson. And the Flames have never been shy about trading down to target a player they want. Depending on the finish this year maybe we see the same thing. If Edmonton was right in there with the Flames I am sure they would love to draft Jones over another forward.. same with Philly.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
Last edited by GreenLantern; 03-22-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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I think that there is more chance of him being a top pairing D than a generational talent personally. If he was that good than there wouldn't even be discussions between people if he was the number 1 pick or not by any team. You would just pick him. Historically dman picked high, even if they are good still don't tend to be as good as the forwards picked in the top 5. There is less risk getting a forward.
I think in a lot of drafts (like last year) there would be no debate - Jones would be the clear number 1. This draft though has a number of guys at the top end that in many years all would merit #1 consideration. Makes it less certain.
I want the flames to win the cup, and I want them to make moves that furthers that goal. I am not going to be cheering for the Flames to lose, but I do want the Flames to be in a position where they have no other choice but to rebuild. That is the necessary step to get us a cup.
We are not going to make the playoffs this year. We are not going to make the playoffs next year, regardless of whether we keep all of our guys or we trade them off for picks/prospects. The important thing is the year after that. Either we're going to have a nice stable of the prospects we get in return from Iginla etc. + Drouin/Barkov + Baertschi etc., or we are going to have a slightly thinner group, which will cause us to have a longer rebuild. I'd prefer to minimize the whole suckage phase that we are in as much as possible, so we have to get more assets overall and that we can move on to possibly building a contender instead of being garbage for 10 years (we're in year 4 of that)
Well put. Ran out of thanks but this post explains the perspective of a lot of people who'd like a top 5 pick this year.
In the end, Jones has been ranked #1 overall since the beginning of the season by every scouting agency. I know that it's fashionable to go against the grain and predict that the experts are wrong but I think if you're drafting #1 you have to take the consensus #1 guy.
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Jones would be nice, but I am still under the impression that the Flames most glaring need is a center. Jankowski will be coming but two to four years is a long wait. A guy like Barkov or McKinnon or Monohan can almost jump in now which is what the Flames need more than anything else.
Personally I suspect it's likely offensive upside more than skating that puts Barkov behind the other two forwards. There's nothing awkward about his skating. Big ice, big body, style of play compared to junior game are also things to consider when comparing players. He won't ever explode up the ice like a 6'0 winger, it's not his game at all, but it's not the case that it's a glaring weakness.
Adjusting to the higher tempo in NA is an another issue. That's just the transition and has a lot to do with lack of space and the speed of the puck. Skating-wise, I don't see why he wouldn't "pull a Thornton or Kopitar."
Button has his skating at 4/5 in the clip I linked to earlier. Another clip taken from the Barkov thread at Hfboards (at 17 seconds) should show that while he's not a speedster, he's also not a prospect with skating issues.
Quote:
a very solid overall package and the skill set to compensate for his below-average skating, making him one of the top prospects for the 2013 NHL Draft. (Matias Strozyk, 2012)
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He is a below-average skater, but that hasn't stopped him from skyrocketing up the 2013 draft board. While QMJHL forward star Nathan MacKinnon and USA defense product Seth Jones are considered the favorites for the top of the 2013 class, don't count Barkov out, as he certainly has the skill set to challenge them.
I think he is actually slightly slower than Kopitar when I watched some of his games. I would still pick him but his speed is a bit below average.
I don't want to weigh in too heavily here, but I agree with Jiri and Tinordi.
Jones looks like a class above the rest. That might be because of his birthdate and size making him appear more mature than his peers, but the actual facets of his game aren't like Phaneuf when he was blowing away his peers.
He's more Pronger than anything else, and I would have to think long and hard about not taking him with the 1st overall.
Jones is clearly a step above players like Hedman and Johnson when they were drafted. None of those guys really dominated in the way Jones does.
He could easily turn out to be a Rob Blake/Larry Robinson-esque player. Quietly dominant physically with a game predicated upon hockey IQ.
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I think in a lot of drafts (like last year) there would be no debate - Jones would be the clear number 1. This draft though has a number of guys at the top end that in many years all would merit #1 consideration. Makes it less certain.
Well, deal with it. I wasn't cheering for Canada either way. Nothing worse than arrogant Canadian fans. They'd be lucky to finish 4th. Quote me on that. They have a bad team and that is why I won't be cheering for them.
Size doesn't necessarily equal a great player tho.
as mentioned on other threads, there are great players who are 'average' sized. I TT was projected as a high pick, and if the draft was rerun, the same article that points out Janko's position hasn't changed, shows TT jumping up to 11th.
at this point, you can only compare the two as they progress to the NHL.
No size isn't everything. But if you like two prospects about the same I think you take the bigger one every time. Bigger, stronger players are harder to shut down, they are more likely to power through checking. If a big, strong player is skilled it gives them two ways to beat defenders, through their size/strength and their skill. Bigger, stronger players can more easily protect the puck as well. Big, strong centres are needed to defensively handle the Getzlaf's, Toews's, Malkin's, etc. The Flames clearly lack size up front and strength on the blueline.
A big #1 centre fits our long term needs far more than TT.
I think he is actually slightly slower than Kopitar when I watched some of his games. I would still pick him but his speed is a bit below average.
Who are you quoting there? Did you watch Kopitar when he was 17? Like I said, Button grades his skating at 4/5. He'll never look explosive but in absolute terms his skating is not below average. His feet aren't going like a smaller, more explosive player, but I don't see him as someone who can't get from A to B.
aww, it is sorta funny that oiler trolls are now so sad about their own drafting woes that they are just assuming every lottery pick is likely an avg non-generational talent like the guys they got
