Mixed feelings on that one because I now am on board with those that think Jones is a very special player - and an elite #1 dman can be just as important to a cup win as a #1 centre.
If you get #1, I feel like you have to take the centre. It just seems like you're much more likely to get somewhere big with a centre at that position, than a d-man.
Since 1990, the following d-men have gone first:
Hamrlik
Jovanovski
Berard
Phillips
Johnson
Now there are some good players there, but franchise turnaround players? Not really.
If you look at Centre, during the same period the following have gone first:
Lindros
Lecavalier
Thornton
Stefan
Crosby
Stamkos
Tavares
Hopkins
Apart from Stefan (and hopefully RNH), those are some franchise-making centres there. And these elite guys just don't tend to drop very far beyond that first couple picks.
Wasting a #1 on a Dman doesn't seem to be the best use of your pick. Not only do they take longer to contribute, I feel like with defenseman, you can get some franchise type guys later in the first round... sometimes even second. None of the best d-men of this generation (Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Pronger, Weber, Keith) went 1st. Lidstrom, Keith, Weber were actually all 2nd rounders.
Goalies and Dmen are hugely important. But if past history has anything to do with it, you'd be foolish to spend a #1 pick on them. Besides, we've been ok with drafting defenseman (not great, but at least relatively) on this team. It's the Centre position that has eluded us for so frickin long. We HAVE to go Centre.
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I agree 100% he is the exact player this franchise needs and is a huge building block. The scouts might like Jones but if we get the chance we need to draft that big Canadian #1 centre even if we have first overall
But MacKinnon is RW and Drouin is the C, aren't they?
edit: Hmm I see them listed as different positions on various sites.
Personally I'm hoping that the Flames at the deadline set themselves up for a top pick. Kipper and Iginla at the minimum gone for picks/prospects. We don't have to cheer for them to lose if they just have the brains to run a franchise correctly. Move some assets. Put the youngsters they do have right into the action on the top lines. Replace every vet they can with a AHL hopeful.
If Feaster would just do his job properly then fans could cheer for the future.
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I know he's not a center, but I really believe Jonathan Drouin is the best player in this draft. His skill level is off the charts - those numbers are just incredible.
Taking him and by some god given miracle acquiring picks and enough ammo to move up and grab Monahan would be an overwhelming success in this draft IMO.
And yes - short term pain for long term gain. Shortened season, past reluctance to rebuild, I'm definitely not upset to look at the boxscore to see they've lost and their tradable pieces are making contributions. It's time to clean house and what a great draft year to do it.
My personal opinion on Jones is that he's a no brainer for any teams that is looking for a franchise defenseman but it usually takes them longer to develope
I know that's common wisdom, but is it still true? Guys like Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Doughty, Green and Myers all peaked very early in their careers and then plateaued or regressed in their mid-20s. Jones looks like a great player, but I can't help but be a little skeptical after all the recent D-men who have burst onto the scene and then taken a step back.
To be fair we are bashing the Flames for doing something stupid yet many in here are suggesting to take players over the consensus top guy on this list - Seth Jones. Offense wins games, defense wins championships, isnt that the old saying?
Which of the top 5 would be ready to step into the NHL next year?
Calm down.. not saying this is how we should draft, I am just curious.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
Never got the fan hype with him. I mean he looks like an alright prospect but doesn't seem to be a franchise player. And at this point a below average sized winger is not at all what we need with Sven and Gaudreau in the system.
I much prefer Jankowski. He could be a real homerun.
Size doesn't necessarily equal a great player tho.
as mentioned on other threads, there are great players who are 'average' sized. I TT was projected as a high pick, and if the draft was rerun, the same article that points out Janko's position hasn't changed, shows TT jumping up to 11th.
at this point, you can only compare the two as they progress to the NHL.
I know that's common wisdom, but is it still true? Guys like Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Doughty, Green and Myers all peaked very early in their careers and then plateaued or regressed in their mid-20s. Jones looks like a great player, but I can't help but be a little skeptical after all the recent D-men who have burst onto the scene and then taken a step back.
Personally I feel common wisdom is to pick center above all positions then winger, then defenseman, and goaltender. Coaches can devise defensive systems to make up for lack of talent on the backend (look at the Devils blueline that got to the Stanley Cup finals last season) but coaches can't devise systems that make up for lack of forward skill and top talent at the center position.
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To be fair we are bashing the Flames for doing something stupid yet many in here are suggesting to take players over the consensus top guy on this list - Seth Jones. Offense wins games, defense wins championships, isnt that the old saying?
Consensus top guys doesn't mean they are the top guys on the team's list. Weisbrod said that there were players picked in last years first round that the Flames didn't have on their entire list period. Jones is getting a lot of the hype but that doesn't mean he's without a doubt the best player and it doesn't mean the Flames love him above other players.
Curious why people here prefer McKinnon over Barkov. I donīt know anything about McKinnon so tell me to whom does he compare to? At this moment Barkov is the most complete 17 year old ever to come out of Finland and holds probably every record worth mentioning.
I think scouts are slightly more confident in projecting prospects who play in the Canadian junior league. It's a different game in Finland than it is in NA. Junior is faster and there are more mistakes and it demands a very dynamic, constantly-going style of play. Seems like MacKinnon projects to be more dynamic on his skates and his ability to create offense in a small rink is easier to predict.
Barkov is playing in a slower, more controlled environment, and he doesn't look like a junior age player at all. He plays like he's 27. Apparently he was the forward killing a 5-on-3 in the most recent playoff game. That's mindblowing. He's 17 and a half. He just doesn't make many mistakes with the puck or in his positioning and he's still outscoring every comparable prospect that has played in the league.
That's pretty great especially considering he's young even in his draft group, but it doesn't mean that there aren't better prospects in the draft. It's about where they will be, not just how mature they are right now.
I think his skating is good enough. He gets to a decent speed but doesn't have explosive acceleration at least yet.
Button on Barkov in November when he visited Finland:
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Consensus top guys doesn't mean they are the top guys on the team's list. Weisbrod said that there were players picked in last years first round that the Flames didn't have on their entire list period. Jones is getting a lot of the hype but that doesn't mean he's without a doubt the best player and it doesn't mean the Flames love him above other players.
With the Flames track record as it has been, stick with the consensus top pick not there internal BS.
I think to be honest we are left with taking McKinnon.
Florida takes Drouin thoughts about a Jonathan Huberdeau and Drouin is too much to pass up. So rather than take the defencemen Drouin goes first overall.
Colorado takes Seth Jones deep at center with Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly. Deep on wings with Landeskog, Parenteau, David Jones. Just really good young talent up front no matter what. What they do need is a talented Defencemen and Seth Jones can do that.
Calgary gets it's Franchise Centermen. This comes down to scouting and can take Barkov or MacKinnon. I guess McKinnon.
Last edited by FakenHaken; 03-22-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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