The Drive for 30th

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Brodie looks good. Backlund looks good. Despite the fact he forced a trade out the Erixon pick doesn't look like a total bust.

Too young to tell on the others but in my time of following prospects I think we have some with promise compared to the past. Reinhart, Gaudreau, Wotherspoon, Baertschi, and Jankowski all show a lot of promise IMO. And then we have a lot of decent looking guys in Brossoit, Ortio, Gillies, Ramage, Sieloff, Arnold, Granlund, etc. A few of those should turn out.

The biggest reason why we haven't hit many homeruns is the lack of top 10 picks in good years and a massive deficit in 2nd rounders. The Flames I believe are the team with the least 1st and 2nd rounders in the last 10 years. Button has not had a lot of high picks in the first two rounds to work with.

Maybe its just my optimistic nature but I think the system is as deep as its ever been in my time of following the Flames. The last few drafts don't look anywhere near as bad as a lot of the drafts in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Ya, I realized that after, I kind of fused your general point about our management being crappy and scouting.

To be honest, their draft record isn't bad but I don't like Feaster's ability to manage assets.

I am just a grumpy pessimist getting sick of the same old BS. The same not giving our picks a fair chance BS. The same stupid predictable songs between the faceoffs for the last 10 years BS. The same stupid theme nights at the dome BS. The same lip service from the Captain BS.

Everything about this team and organization is tired and worn out. And I have simply lost hope. They have given me zero hope that they might actually do something new and exciting.

The only new and exciting thing they have done in 10 years, was bring back a 20 year old Jersey, which is neither new, nor exciting.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Brodie looks good. Backlund looks good. Despite the fact he forced a trade out the Erixon pick doesn't look like a total bust.

Too young to tell on the others but in my time of following prospects I think we have some with promise compared to the past. Reinhart, Gaudreau, Wotherspoon, Baertschi, and Jankowski all show a lot of promise IMO. And then we have a lot of decent looking guys in Brossoit, Ortio, Gillies, Ramage, Sieloff, Arnold, Granlund, etc. A few of those should turn out.

The biggest reason why we haven't hit many homeruns is the lack of top 10 picks in good years and a massive deficit in 2nd rounders. The Flames I believe are the team with the least 1st and 2nd rounders in the last 10 years. Button has not had a lot of high picks in the first two rounds to work with.

Maybe its just my optimistic nature but I think the system is as deep as its ever been in my time of following the Flames. The last few drafts don't look anywhere near as bad as a lot of the drafts in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Most teams have kids that look at least as good as Brodie and Backlund. Until we draft and develop a difference maker, people will remain skeptical and frankly it's hard to blame them.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Well if it's no crap, then your first post was just mindless whining.

Did you read the second part of my post? It explains it. Not whining at all.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Don't like Jankowski, who would you have preferred?

Teuvo Teravainen fell right into our laps actually.

[Hemi-Cuda]

i don't like seeing the Flames lose, but when i saw the scoreboard tonight (i've since stopped caring enough to watch the games) this pretty much summed it up:



at this point i just want something to look forward to, if that's a chance to draft a possible franchise player then so be it. because watching the Flames flounder around the 9th-10th spot in the west the last 3 years has driven my apathy towards this franchise to new highs

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by pylon

The point I am making Jiri, is we don't know if they (the current regime) have drafted well or not. There are no stats to back anything up. For all we know, nobody ever plays an NHL game.

Well there is the subjective way, the only way available, which is to watch what you can of the players drafted as they play in the World Juniors, college, junior, etc. Watch highlights, check out coach's awards, etc.

When some of your prospects excel against their peers like Baertschi has, like Gaudreau has, it makes you think they may have found something. Compare that to guys like John Armstrong, Tim Ramholt, etc who didn't show as much at the same age. There tends to be a buzz that starts to generate around guys who actually have NHL potential. Buzz not just from fans but from coaches and management. Think of Brodie's rookie camps and training camps earlier in his career. Think of Sven's year last year and his brief call up.

Obviously none of us can conclusively prove to anyone that our drafting has improved. But the sheer amount of prospects that have either impressed in their league on the world stage at the World Juniors seems to have increased in my subjective take on it. I like that Feaster is hands off with the scouts and lets them make their list. I like that they are double checking their list with analysis tools that weight the factors they consider most important.

Time will tell. But I'm not at all worried about them screwing up a top 5-8 pick in a strong draft year. I don't think that'll be an issue at all.

On the other hand I'm extremely worried about how management will handle the trade deadline given Feaster's intellectual honesty speech, fool me twice, and then lack of action last year. There's more reason lately to believe that management is deluded or has their hands tied than the scouts are incompetant.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Teuvo Teravainen fell right into our laps actually.

Never got the fan hype with him. I mean he looks like an alright prospect but doesn't seem to be a franchise player. And at this point a below average sized winger is not at all what we need with Sven and Gaudreau in the system.

I much prefer Jankowski. He could be a real homerun.

[The Yen Man]

TBQH, I'm more worried they trade the pick than who they draft with the pick. I'm going to lose it if, on draft day, right before the Flames go up to draft, Bettman steps onto the podium and goes:"we have a trade to announce. The Calgary Flames trade their 1st round pick to...".

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Teuvo Teravainen fell right into our laps actually.

uh huh, and?

I was asking pylon, who seemed to hate the Jankowski pick, who he would have preferred.

[HELPNEEDED]

I can't believe we are acting like oiler fans

[AC]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

I really feel positive about the last two drafts:

- Sven, Gaudreau, Janowski, Sieloff, Wotherspoon Granlund, Brossoit...

The notion that we somehow end up drafting top 3-ish this season and somehow miss the potential franchise players universally ranked in that bracket is beyond ridiculous.

Don't forget Jon Gillies as a 3rd rounder, who was just named rookie of the year for Hockey East.

Brett Kulak finished 3rd on the Vancouver Giants in points (as a defenceman).

Coda Gordon, a 6th rounder, finished 2nd on Swift Current in points.

And by all accounts, Matt DeBlouw may be a real diamond in the rough as a 7th rounder.

I'm also really excited about Bill Arnold as a 4th rounder in 2010.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Most teams have kids that look at least as good as Brodie and Backlund. Until we draft and develop a difference maker, people will remain skeptical and frankly it's hard to blame them.

No doubt and I don't blame them.

That said there's no reason to believe they'll screw up a top 5-8 draft pick in a strong draft year. So I'm going to argue against those that have fully embraced pessimism and believe we'll find some way to screw that up. There's no evidence that we would screw up drafting high in a strong draft.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by pylon

I never said I don't like the kid. But it was a very risky pick, for a horrible team like the Flames, who need NHL ready players sooner, than later. There is no guarantee he even has to sign with us if he decides to pull the ole College loophole thingy.

What if they picked a chl guy and they pulled the old glass loophole thing? That would be bad too

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by pylon

The only new and exciting thing they have done in 10 years, was bring back a 20 year old Jersey, which is neither new, nor exciting.

haha now you're just being negative for the sake of being negative.

So many exciting memories of the last 20 years, not including 2004 btw.

[MikaelBacklund]

Mackinnon
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan
Jones
Drouin

Even though I think Drouin is going to be the best player out of this draft.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I don't think separating regimes by the person actually at the helm is arbitrary at all. The scout's may rank the players but it's the GM's vision of the team that will also impact which players are drafted, where the scouts spend most of their time etc...

It does, however, usually take a few years for a GM to have a big effect on drafting.

For instance, when Sutter took over as GM, drafting was atrocious. Looking into it deeper, there was barely a scouting staff at all, nevermind a development staff.

It took a number of years, but Sutter was FINALLY drafting better. His last draft he was in charge of seemed pretty decent. Todd Button after the draft commented on how that year, all their picks were "High Hockey IQ" guys.

Feaster and Weisbrod took over, and they are still emphasizing "high hockey IQ". Feaster has added to the scouting department (namely Weisbrod) and Weisbrod has since changed how the scouts work (they like different scouts in the organization to take a look at the same players).

What Sutter did in the past (as a rookie GM) and what Feaster did in the past in Tampa (rookie GM, owners that were cutting costs) are really hard to gauge. Sutter's first few years were night and day different than the last few years, for instance.

I have more 'faith' in the Flames' drafting just based on how much they have revamped everything to do with scouting and development since those 'dark years'. Is it 'perfect', or even 'great'? I have no idea... nobody does until more prospects make the jump into the NHL and become impact players. I just see a huge swing of the pendulum in the organization emphasizing the importance of scouting and development now, where it was nearly non-existent and an afterthought.

In hindsight, trading away all those 2nd round picks proved to be good for the organization during the Sutter regime. They were drafting terribly anyways, and he did hit more often than miss on those trades.

As for cheering for 30th place...

As a fan, I just won't do it. I will cheer for every win. The losses now just have less of a sting as you start to look forward to the potential they will end up bringing to the organization. You can't help but 'want' to finish last (or in the bottom 3 - just in case someone below you wins the lottery and kicks you out of the top 4 who seem a step above the rest). I just can't get myself to cheer for it... but if they finish last, I do look forward to being excited at watching a potential franchise player getting drafted by the Flames.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

haha now you're just being negative for the sake of being negative.

So many exciting memories of the last 20 years, not including 2004 btw.

Fine... last 8 and a half years.

[SOMBRI2]

I made a point in the GT and I want to paraphrase here.

Peter Maher mentioned a couple road games ago (it was the pre-game segment - is that called "On the Road"?) that people should not hope the Flames to lose. His points are that, pro athletes should try their best, and winning...is in their DNA.

As much as I agreed on the context, I DO NOT agree that it applies to the Flames.

I don't want them to 'tank' like the Oilers, but I believe they will naturally go to that path because simply this team is not 8th seed nor a playoff team. They are not good enough. Tonight's outing has proven once again, this team is complacent and as if they treated this game as a pre-season game.

I assume majority, if not all, of fans want this team to succeed. There is so much fun when the team wins. You feel good. You feel you support the right team. You can mock the opponents etc etc...that's values.

However, you paid to watch this team (even you get free tickets, you have to invest time and emotion). But this team doesn't give you the values you expect.

I hope we can find another product (following pro-sports team) that you can ask for a refund. But no...hell no, the fans just want to receive 'good customer services' i.e. a good effort on the ice. But it seems someone somehow somewhere has been sugar coating problems or the ignorance of the management which is sad.

Some fans have no choice, but to say it out loud in phone-in shows, in CP forums, in the CBC/TSN/SN website comment area...I think fans are down to no choice but to say...'why don't we try that path...i know it sucks but it is better than what we saw in the last 3-4 years'...That's the reason behind it. No one says straight out and ask the team to tank right from the get-go. But hopes are vanished already.

The bad fans perhaps are the fans who choose to be silent.

I still cheer for this team. I hope they succeed. But one must face the reality of the state of this franchise.

My 2 cents.

Edit: I forgot to mention, this team is not good enough (not strength wise) but consistency wise. And they choose to bring 'heart and soul' from time to time. It is an 'OK' team, but OK is not OK at this level. I feel bad when Kipper got run a few times tonight...sigh.

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by MikaelBacklund

Mackinnon
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan
Jones
Drouin

Even though I think Drouin is going to be the best player out of this draft.

Then why the order ?

[Gundo]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

I can't believe we are acting like oiler fans

Can you also not believe they are playing like them too?