[CP Story] Decision Time in Calgary

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

should I be happy for you? what does this mean then for current ST holders, like me...are we suckers who continue to feed into the Flames' issues that it's run as a "business" first (which is exactly what all pro-sports are, so that argument is silly to me)?

I'm not one of those people who will blindly say that I'll have the same interest and budget in a rebuilding team that sucks. I'll hang on to the tickets, but anyone who says they'll sit in the stands and cheer just as hard for a young, newly blown up squad that gets murdered every night is just flat out lying. everyone's interest will grow and wane with the team's success and that's natural...but don't feel like you need to announce how savvy you were to pull your funds from the Flames when things started going bad.

My comment has nothing to do with you or any other ST holder

The year the Flames won the Cup I was paying $17.50 for my seat in the second tier. Given that players salaries have risen to insanity levels and ticket prices being what they are, I can't justify paying what people pay now for ST's. I don't see value on the ice for what i'd be paying today.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Trading Iggy or Kipper is the only way to get any assets in return tho. Rebuilding without trading iggy is basically what the organization has been trying to do the last three years.

We are in "win now" mold because our core is at that point of urgency in their careers.

I'd rather see Iggy lift the Cup with some other team than to see him become another marcel Dionne....

[Bingo]

Great discussion guys; appreciate it.

To me it comes down to a simple question. Are the Flames in their present state (or prospects in development) heading to a top four seed in the West in the next 3 seasons?

If yes ... then hold the line

If no you have another question; which players should be moved to get assets that will be involved in the team in 3-5 season? and which players should be kept to tutor or mold these players?

(the following two questions are placed to avoid that scorched Earth mentality)

[CSharp]

You can trade away the best player on the team that's carried the team for years every year. But in the end, you get guys like Tanguay, GlenX, JBo, Butler, Cervenka, Jackman, and countless others who don't show heart and play hard every night, this is the same crappy team you're gonna get year in and year out. One man can't change the team. It's a whole team effort that changes the team to a whole new level. The Flames have arguably the best goalie and the one of the best power forward still in the NHL right here, right now. But the team just sucks more than half the time because players don't show up for part or even most of the games for more than half of the games that are played. So, what'd you expect?

If Iron Mike was let to coach instead of being fired for Brent, we wouldn't be seeing Tanguay's lazy ass floating around the ice still. There was a reason why Tanguay left the first time around.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Dion

My comment has nothing to do with you or any other ST holder

The year the Flames won the Cup I was paying $17.50 for my seat in the second tier. Given that players salaries have risen to insanity levels and ticket prices being what they are, I can't justify paying what people pay now for ST's. I don't see value on the ice for what i'd be paying today.

Ok that's cool, sounds better explained that way. I just can't stand it when people say they used to spend money on the flames, but now the team sucks so they're officially withdrawing their monetary support, like they should get pats on the back or a medal for valor. Spending or not spending money on the NHL, doesn't matter, but neither choice should be sent up as a personal victory of some kind.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Dion

My comment has nothing to do with you or any other ST holder

The year the Flames won the Cup I was paying $17.50 for my seat in the second tier. Given that players salaries have risen to insanity levels and ticket prices being what they are, I can't justify paying what people pay now for ST's. I don't see value on the ice for what i'd be paying today.

Totally agree. That same year we paid $18.00 for our seats in FF1 row 35. A freind out here in B.C. has invited me to the Canucks/Flames game on April 6th. I was astonished at the ticket prices. They are in row three but $203.50/ticket. Ridiculous. If Flames tickets are similar prices then I feel very sorry for people who pay that amount to watch millionaires play as poorly as the Flames have for the last few years.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CSharp

You can trade away the best player on the team that's carried the team for years every year. But in the end, you get guys like Tanguay, GlenX, JBo, Butler, Cervenka, Jackman, and countless others who don't show heart and play hard every night, this is the same crappy team you're gonna get year in and year out. One man can't change the team. It's a whole team effort that changes the team to a whole new level. The Flames have arguably the best goalie and the one of the best power forward still in the NHL right here, right now. But the team just sucks more than half the time because players don't show up for part or even most of the games for more than half of the games that are played. So, what'd you expect?

If Iron Mike was let to coach instead of being fired for Brent, we wouldn't be seeing Tanguay's lazy ass floating around the ice still. There was a reason why Tanguay left the first time around.

Agree 100%. Tanguay has to be the worst cancer of all. Keenan, for all his warts, actually turned Tanguay into a great team player - an excellent checker & PKer who could produce offence at the same time - exactly the kind of guy you need to win. Tanguay's reaction - trade me right f***ing now. He wanted to score points and be an offensive player. Get him the hell out of here (or bring Keenan back to torment him) - this is the last guy I want "tutoring" young players...

[4X4]

I don't know why the owners would be too worried about losing STH, when the new arena is on the horizon. I think that just the fact that it's a new building will mean a spike in people on the wait list. It kinds seems like the right time for a rebuild for more reasons than just Iginla's contract expiring.
I don't mean for that to sound like it's the right time to abuse the STH base. I just mean that if a rebuild did piss off a couple thousand STH, there'd be a couple thousand lined up to take their seats with the new building just around the corner.

[Machiavelli]

Unfortunately Iginla seems to like his inconsistent linemates....Tanguay and Cammalleri. This has probably played into the Flames re-acquiring these guys.

I think he may have forgotten what it's like to play with a true competitor.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Unfortunately Iginla seems to like his inconsistent linemates....Tanguay and Cammalleri. This has probably played into the Flames re-acquiring these guys.

I think he may have forgotten what it's like to play with a true competitor.

Yes, and I am hoping that the Iginla trade leads to those two being shown the door as well. There are way too many floaters who don't back check hanging around this team...

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Unfortunately Iginla seems to like his inconsistent linemates....Tanguay and Cammalleri. This has probably played into the Flames re-acquiring these guys.

I think he may have forgotten what it's like to play with a true competitor.

Of course this has nothing to do with Iginla's inconsistent play.........

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Great discussion guys; appreciate it.

To me it comes down to a simple question. Are the Flames in their present state (or prospects in development) heading to a top four seed in the West in the next 3 seasons?

If yes ... then hold the line

If no you have another question; which players should be moved to get assets that will be involved in the team in 3-5 season? and which players should be kept to tutor or mold these players?

(the following two questions are placed to avoid that scorched Earth mentality)

I sure hope management is able to map things out like that.

There has been a lot of speculation on Bouwmeester but I think with regard to that 3-5 season question, he is definitely someone who can help a lot during that timeframe.

Backlund, Baertschi, Hudler, Bouwmeester, Brodie, Wideman I suppose is the group that I would include as the guys to hold on to with the second question.

[JurassicTunga12]

Originally Posted by calgARI

I sure hope management is able to map things out like that.

There has been a lot of speculation on Bouwmeester but I think with regard to that 3-5 season question, he is definitely someone who can help a lot during that timeframe.

Backlund, Baertschi, Hudler, Bouwmeester, Brodie, Wideman I suppose is the group that I would include as the guys to hold on to with the second question.

Glencross and Tanguay(Would move Tanguay if the deal was right, obviously) would be good guys to keep as well, I think.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Unfortunately Iginla seems to like his inconsistent linemates....Tanguay and Cammalleri. This has probably played into the Flames re-acquiring these guys.

I think he may have forgotten what it's like to play with a true competitor.

Maybe he doesn't like playing with true competitors.

Tough to keep up.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Maybe he doesn't like playing with true competitors.

Tough to keep up.

oops nm.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Of course this has nothing to do with Iginla's inconsistent play.........

I wonder how much of that is due to Iginla's age.

Iginla was a power forward. I honestly don't see very many of them keep that mentality for too long. They really seem to have the shortest shelf life of any player. As soon as he wasn't able to drive the net anymore, it looks like he's been trying to find a new role and has settled on sniper.

He reminds me a lot of Selanne in this regard. When Selanne couldn't keep blazing down the ice, he moved into a PP specialist role. I could see the same happen with Iginla. His legs and body won't get him anywhere these days, but he's still got that great shot.

[Mr.Coffee]

Yeah agree with the value of the product not being where the price is these days. It really just is not worth the price of admission for the product that lazes around every other night.

Admittedly this year, offensively especially, they average probably better work ethic than last year, which honestly was the worst I've ever seen in a hockey team ever. But there are too many nights where there are passengers, and for the price of the ticket, the prices of these salaries... I mean it just is not good value considering all the entertainment options out there. If you can watch your team on tv, it's way cheaper, you get the game and you get the comfort of your own home. You can shut it off or walk away guilt free if these guys start to pull their same ol' BS. It's not like the nachos at the Saddledome are worth what they charge. It's not like the experience at present is worth what they charge. The ONLY reason people hang onto tickets, is for an exciting amazing playoff run. Fans believe, in my opinion, quite widely from what I can tell, that the fastest way to the playoffs is to start a massive overhaul, and trade Iginla.

Frankly I don't see how you can really think of it any other way. Holding onto this core, this team for any longer, is just pushing that playoff birth out those years. For fans paying big dollars for an inferior product, that is an over-burdensome amount of patience requested for entertainment budgets.

[mister__big]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't know why the owners would be too worried about losing STH, when the new arena is on the horizon. I think that just the fact that it's a new building will mean a spike in people on the wait list. It kinds seems like the right time for a rebuild for more reasons than just Iginla's contract expiring.
I don't mean for that to sound like it's the right time to abuse the STH base. I just mean that if a rebuild did piss off a couple thousand STH, there'd be a couple thousand lined up to take their seats with the new building just around the corner.

I seriously doubt that a new building will attract more fans if the team continues to suck. People pay to watch the game on the ice and not to ogle at the new building.

To me, this is business plain and simple. Edwards and Co. want to maximize revenue, and that means doing whatever it takes to make the playoffs, even if you have to mortgage the future. It's the reason why Feaster was willing to gamble away $2.5 million and the 1st rounder for O'Reilly. I'm quite sure he got the green light from ownership to make the offer sheet because if he didn't then he would most likely be unemployed by now.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by kirant

I wonder how much of that is due to Iginla's age.

Iginla was a power forward. I honestly don't see very many of them keep that mentality for too long. They really seem to have the shortest shelf life of any player. As soon as he wasn't able to drive the net anymore, it looks like he's been trying to find a new role and has settled on sniper.

He reminds me a lot of Selanne in this regard. When Selanne couldn't keep blazing down the ice, he moved into a PP specialist role. I could see the same happen with Iginla. His legs and body won't get him anywhere these days, but he's still got that great shot.

Except Selanne still has his speed left.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Itse

Enjoy your kool-aid before you actually look at our roster.

Tanguay (33) - Cammalleri (30) - Iginla (35)
Glencross (30) - Stajan (29) - Stempniak (30)
Hudler (29) - Backlund (24) - Comeau (27)
Jackman (31) - Cervenka (27) - McGrattan (31)

Brodie (22) - Bouwmeester (29)
Giordano (29) - Wideman (30)
Butler (26) - Smith (28)

Kiprusoff (36)

Average for top 6F, top4D, G: 30,3
Total Average: 29,3



For comparison, here's our comparison from March 20th 2011.

Glencross (28) - Backlund (22) - Iginla (33)
Tanguay (31) - Jokinen (32) - Bourque (29)
Hagman (31) - Stajan (27) - Kotalik (32)
Jackman (29) - Bouma (20) - Kostopoulos (32)

Regehr (30) - Bouwmeester (27)
Giordano (27) - Sarich (32)
Babchuk (26) - Staios (37)

Kiprusoff (34)

Average for top 6F, top 4D, G: 29,5
Total Average: 29,4


Summary: We have not been getting younger. At all.

For you top six calc we have gotten almost 2 years younger. You put Backlund in the top 6 which to my recolection never really happened for any considerable length of time and then in todays top 6 you leave Backlund out and put the 5 year older Stajan who was in the bottom 6 before.

So Our team top 6 and top 4 D has gotten 2 years younger despite core members of that group aging by 2 years.