Chinook Centre's Security - Highly Aggressive? You decide.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Why is it only taboo to blame the victim when it comes to rape? Regardless of what happened before the video started rolling, there's no defense for some of the actions on that tape.

I hope you don't think I'm blaming the victim for what happened. Like I said, no one deserves what he got. All I'm saying is there are reasonable steps that could have been taken by both parties to avoid what happened.

[gargamel]

^My comment wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular - just a general observation about the tone in threads like this.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by zamler

lol, I nominate you for the sweeping generalization award.

I was actually referring to BOTH parties.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by Fire

From watching the video the punches were nothing more than love taps trying to position his body in the right position in order to cuff him. The guy sounds like a loser. Maybe more beatings would put some sense in him.

He is not a loser, I saw him the CTV video reading a book.
Judging from that video he seems an upstanding citizen.

[troutman]

"I didn't do nothing" is a double negative, so he did do something.

[jschick88]

So which one was dismissed?

We are actively investigating the security incident that occurred on March 16th.
We wish to advise our patrons, tenants and staff that disciplinary action was taken as of Sunday, March 17.
Disciplinary action included the dismissal of one individual and we will take further actions as more details emerge from our investigation.

https://twitter.com/ChinookCentre

[zamler]

The one that didn't do enough punching.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by zamler

The one that didn't do enough punching.

Going back through the video, I am pretty sure only one person was actually punching.

[dammage79]

Okay, just so I am clear on my first post . The Guard who came in punching should be fired and have charges pressed (looks like that is the case). No need for that, especially when there's four other guards on him already. It's what makes bouncers and security guards look bad. I made my post making an observation of the video. The four guards made an arrest and were in good position on all four limbs. What made them move on him for an arrest is still up in the air and anything I said after was purely speculative. Hence the massive use of the word IF in the following paragraph of my post. But to be fair no one really knows why it went down the way it did yet so everything is speculative at this point, either for or against the security team.

Yes, he was actively resisting during the arrest process, stiffening your arms and using your muscles to impede the process is by all definitions of the word, resistance. What was a three minute escapade could have been reduced to thirty seconds if he had co-operated.

One thing is clear and should be noted, there is a severe lack of proper training in apprehension techniques and that should have progressed along with the licensing process that has taken effect the last five years in this country.

Does anyone remember the old days in bars and security when it was technically the wild wild west? You screwed up or mouthed off and you got your butt handed to you? That time wasn't that long ago, Bar associations, governments and other active groups are changing these ways and it only started not even a decade ago. The training and licensing programs are still in its infancy and have yet to be perfected.

There's going to be bumps in the road getting to where all security are properly filtered, trained and prepared to do this job. Its just too bad 90% of security professionals who are actually good at what they do are lumped in with the 10% hot headed bully types that make them all look so bad.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by dammage79

One thing is clear and should be noted, there is a severe lack of proper training in apprehension techniques and that should have progressed along with the licensing process that has taken effect the last five years in this country. Even police don't have great training requirements on arrest procedures.

What qualifies you to make this statement? Please give examples of how police don't have great training requirements.

[Acey]

Pretty sure it was the one who was punching that got fired, or the one who yelled WHAT and was pulled away by his buddy.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

What qualifies you to make this statement? Please give examples of how police don't have great training requirements.

I do not have any qualifications to make that statement. I do not have written examples to provide. I do know that some officers in a city do take it seriously enough to go outside of the departments training program to further improve their technique. That is all. And that I have heard comments made that the training program in one department does need a big improvement. I could say I was next door neighbors to a police department head but that would mean nothing to you without proof.

[Thor]

When I saw the guard using punches the first thing I thought of is he's trying to get him to move his arm to position as police often do.

He looks like a dirt bag, so I approve of his treatment. Its too bad they didn't kick him.

[Thor]

I asked a police friend of mine in Iceland to watch the video, he said it looked pretty standard. The punches were what he suggested is a method to get the perp to move their arm into position for cuffs, and overwhelming a person with force is done to protect the officers, not to mention if they felt he might be holding a weapon.

I asked him why they don't just use tickling instead of punching since it on some people would have the same affect, but he said punching feels better.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Thor

When I saw the guard using punches the first thing I thought of is he's trying to get him to move his arm to position as police often do.

He looks like a dirt bag, so I approve of his treatment. Its too bad they didn't kick him.

Gotta say, I expected this from a lot of posters, but I didnt think it would come from you.

Not saying I disagree, just saying it surprised me

[Dion]

Disciplinary action included the dismissal of one individual and mall officials say they may take further action as more details emerge from their investigation.

Douseppt says he is pleased with the mall's response and is glad the whole thing wasn't swept under the rug.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/chinook-ce...dent-1.1202659

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Thor

When I saw the guard using punches the first thing I thought of is he's trying to get him to move his arm to position as police often do.

He looks like a dirt bag, so I approve of his treatment. Its too bad they didn't kick him.

I look forward to seeing the guard who got fired charged with assult

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I do not have any qualifications to make that statement. I do not have written examples to provide. I do know that some officers in a city do take it seriously enough to go outside of the departments training program to further improve their technique. That is all. And that I have heard comments made that the training program in one department does need a big improvement. I could say I was next door neighbors to a police department head but that would mean nothing to you without proof.

You have to understand that a lot of the extra training from outside sources is not condoned or recognized by Police Departments and an officer could be leaving themselves liable to misconduct investigations if they use unapproved training.

Police departments have policy and procedure that is formed from research and past experiences.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Thor

I asked a police friend of mine in Iceland to watch the video, he said it looked pretty standard. The punches were what he suggested is a method to get the perp to move their arm into position for cuffs, and overwhelming a person with force is done to protect the officers, not to mention if they felt he might be holding a weapon.

I asked him why they don't just use tickling instead of punching since it on some people would have the same affect, but he said punching feels better.

Why would you ask a police officer? These rent-a-cops have no more rights than me and you.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

It doesn't matter what he did.

Why can't you grasp that. Punching a guy while he's being subdued by 5 other guys is wrong and even one of the saner rent-a-cops realized that and had to hold him back.

There was absolutely no reason to punch him while he was on the floor. A punch isn't going to make his hands magically handcuffed.

Keep fighting the good fight though UCB. And I don't care if I come across as a know-it-all, I'd rather come across as that then a person who defends people breaking the law. You say you've got history dealing with Chinook security but with your fib-telling history on CP I highly doubt that.

Trust me, you don't come across as a know-it-all.

Did you even comprehend that use of force continuum?

He admitted to being an active resistor. He continued to "actively" resist and not cooperate. Should they have just asked hom nicely and bought him some flowers.

How about this, you and 4 or 5 friends can try an arrest me while im actively resisting. Are you going to roll around with me on the pavement and just try and free my arm from underneath me with your hand? Good luck. Are they authorized to use strikes for such resistance? Yup.

Are you authorized as a private citizen? Yup.

The kicker is the word "reasonable" and is based on the totality of circumstances including everything from subject behaviour, to subject background to environmental conditions to ones own personal abilities and EVERYTHING in between.

It makes no difference if YOU think the authority for arrest exists or doesn't. If you are arrested by a cop or someone in a lawful position to make arrests, I would suggest being cooperative and reasonable before spouting off and throwing your coffee.

This guy is NOT a victim. It seems everyone is simply condemning the actions of the security guards simply due to their own personal biases about "$10 doolar rent-a-cops".