Airport Tunnel Rejected Again? **UPDATE** It's built!

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Interesting read about that guy. Anyone know more about him?

He has ran in the Mayoral Elections several times - finishing a distant (really distant) second in 2004.

He shows up to pretty much every council meeting. He likes to speak during the public hearing portions, it gives council a five minute break to turn their brains off every time. He has a couple of catchphrases that he likes to use, and mostly rambles on a little bit like grandpa Simpson. He doesn't stray far from the same theme every time he talks. His ramblings in front of council probably cost the city several thousand dollars per year (5 minutes per ramble times several dozen rambles per year, times the wages of the alderman and city managers at the council meetings)

The land in question is the land bound by Metis to the West, 60th Ave to the east, Airport Trail to the north, and 88th Ave to the south. Half a section in total. Google Maps Link

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Herald Article from today.

That should make the city's negotiations for the required land much easier. I wonder if we might even see the road twinned next summer. That would be nice.

That seems like a potentially huge conflict of interest. If anyone on council/city staff told Genstar this redesignation was imminent, they had material non-public information about this land, as extra exits off Metis probably make it more valuable.

People were pretty upset about our last mayor's land purchases in Sunalta, this seems like it has the potential to be similar. Is Genstar a big donor to municipal candidates?

[bizaro86]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...918/story.html
Airport improvement fees going up again, now tied with Ft Mac for the 2nd highest in the country. A total of an extra $30 every time you get on a flight leaving here.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

That seems like a potentially huge conflict of interest. If anyone on council/city staff told Genstar this redesignation was imminent, they had material non-public information about this land, as extra exits off Metis probably make it more valuable.

People were pretty upset about our last mayor's land purchases in Sunalta, this seems like it has the potential to be similar. Is Genstar a big donor to municipal candidates?

Like I said, the city requested a report studying the option to reclassify the same day the Tunnel was approved, in February 2011. The report came back to committee back in summer, and this land sale was only completed less than a month ago. It was public knowledge that Metis was likely going to be redesignated well before the sale happened. There were newspaper articles out when this report came out. I don't see where Genstar would have got any "inside" information.

The thing that article doesn't mention, is that with the redesignation, Genstar is now responsible to pay for the twinning of Metis, not the city.

The only extra entrance that Genstar will get will be at the very SW corner of the subject lands, at Metis/88th Ave. That access certainly does give better access between the land and Metis Trail, and thus Airport Trail and Deerfoot. Essentially, all access to the land will be off of 88th Ave.

[You Need a Thneed]

January 2013 "update":

Linky

[Mazrim]

I don't know if that's a legit update. I see no quantities of concrete used!

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I don't know if that's a legit update. I see no quantities of concrete used!

Just for you:

Originally Posted by Fake Update

As of January 10th, 47 rolls of "protective sheets" have been placed. Each roll is approximately 50m long and takes 1 hour to put in place. Each roll takes approximately one truck to deliver.

[Barnes]

Approximately one truck? Not two lashed together? A truck and a half?

[Ironhorse]

So today's big accident on Deerfoot trail, where NB traffic is being redirected onto McKnight and it turning into a major cluster###### on 11 street, should be a good example of why we had to build this tunnel with alternate Airport access. I wonder how many people will be late for flights today?

[You Need a Thneed]

Airport Authority open to allowing connection on Airport Trail between 36th Street and Metis Trail.

Calgary Airport Authority’s CEO said he’s open to easing a rule that would dead-end the Airport Trail and tunnel extension before Metis Trail once that $295-million roadway opens next year.

The airport agreed the city could cut a tunnel road beneath its new runway, but only on condition that the road end at the small 36th Street N.E. when it opens.

The city would only be able to link the tunnel road to Metis Trail — and a northeast ring road exit — once it also constructed interchanges for terminal access, paid for by both the airport and city.

Airport boss Garth Atkinson slightly opened the door to changing this rule, telling council Monday he’s willing to renegotiate.

Getting the airport to come to their senses on this would be good. The Airport Trail tunnel is useful, but it becomes much more useful for many people in southern Calgary and southern Alberta with the full connection.

The airport is worried about traffic, but Airport Trail is going to be three lanes each way going by the airport. It only two lanes each way currently, and is it ever busy?

It would be decades before there would be enough traffic on Airport Trail to affect someone's airport experience, IMO. Traffic would still flow fairly well with triple the current volume.

[You Need a Thneed]

Also, it's been pretty quiet for updates from the city ever since the concrete pours were done. In November, they posted a youtube vdeo, there was no update of any kind in December, in January, the published the one page update that says nothing but has a couple pictures, and no updates so far in February or March.

Work has been going on through the winter, so I'm not sure why they can't give an update. Work has been done on the portal walls (I can see this from 36th Street as I drive by), and certainly on the electrical and mechanical systems, and the stormwater holding tank.

Final grading was tendered earlier this year, and the work for that will involve closing 36th Street NE between Country Hills Blvd and 80th Ave for a couple of months this summer. The intersection of Barlow and Airport Trail will be down to less lanes for a period as well.

I noticed on the tender plans that there is going to be an electronic system that will allow access through the tunnel to be closed off - mostly electronic signage that can light up saying no right turn or no left turn, or u-turn required. Without knowing more details, I would guess that this would be for use in large rain storm events, when the tunnel might flood - the provided stormwater tank unable to handle the amount of water. The tunnel gets quite deep under the existing grade, plus the stormwater tank obviously has to be built lower than that (it's just outside the tunnel at the west end - the lowest place in the tunnel is quite close to the west end, and it slowly goes uphill at it goes east.

[BlackArcher101]

I believe the stormwater tank and pumps are capable of handling a 100 year flood event. I don't see them allowing the tunnel to flood by design, especially with the future consideration of a LRT line going through it.

The electronic access system could be a security measure, preventing vehicles from accessing it if there is a back up (keep cars from stopping inside) or emergency event like a fire.

[temple5]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Airport Authority open to allowing connection on Airport Trail between 36th Street and Metis Trail.



Getting the airport to come to their senses on this would be good. The Airport Trail tunnel is useful, but it becomes much more useful for many people in southern Calgary and southern Alberta with the full connection.

The airport is worried about traffic, but Airport Trail is going to be three lanes each way going by the airport. It only two lanes each way currently, and is it ever busy?

It would be decades before there would be enough traffic on Airport Trail to affect someone's airport experience, IMO. Traffic would still flow fairly well with triple the current volume.

Interesting, I thought Airport trail was going to connect to Stoney from the beginning and the interchanges only had to be built when traffic met a certain criteria.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

I believe the stormwater tank and pumps are capable of handling a flood event. I don't see them allowing the tunnel to flood by design, especially with the future consideration of a LRT line going through it.

The electronic access system could be a security measure, preventing vehicles from accessing it if there is a back up (keep cars from stopping inside) or emergency event like a fire.

Every road in the city is designed to flood if the rainfall is heavy enough. It is almost literally impossible to build anything that could handle every rainstorm. Infrastructure is designed so that it can handle things 99% of the time, but getting that number to 99.9% makes the project cost double.

So yes, the stormwater tank should handle almost every rainfall, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if every five years or so, the tunnel might have to be closed due to flooding. If the stormwater tank is full, and it's still raining faster than water can be pumped out of the tank, the tunnel is simply going to flood. Like you said, there are other reasons why the tunnel might need to be closed as well.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by temple5

Interesting, I thought Airport trail was going to connect to Stoney from the beginning and the interchanges only had to be built when traffic met a certain criteria.

This is what the city wanted to do. In the last minute, the Airport Authority demanded that the 36th St to Metis connection could not be built until interchanges at 19th St and Barlow Trail were built.

It doesn't really make sense, but it's in the agreement currently. Hopefully, the airport will allow the connect without the interchanges, as I think the connection will be required in the next 5-7 years (It would be nice now, but we could manage without it), but those interchanges might not be required for 20 years, IMO.

[temple5]

So if someone from the South wanted to use Stoney to get to the airport they would need to take

Stoney to McKnight
McKnight to Metis
Metris to 80 (or whatever side street to get them to 36)
36 to Airport Trail/96 Ave

Or Just take Deerfoot.

I still think the Calgary Airport Authority is probably one of the best run airports in the country, but they way they dealt with the City on this issue makes them look like a bunch of wrinkly duches.

Until the Tunnel is connected to Metis Trail and Stoney Trail, the Tunnel will be completely useless.

I am really surprised the City didnt make this known to shame the Airport Authority in reneging on it.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by temple5

Until the Tunnel is connected to Metis Trail and Stoney Trail, the Tunnel will be completely useless.

I am really surprised the City didnt make this known to shame the Airport Authority in reneging on it.

What did the Airport Authority renege on?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by temple5

So if someone from the South wanted to use Stoney to get to the airport they would need to take

Stoney to McKnight
McKnight to Metis
Metris to 80 (or whatever side street to get them to 36)
36 to Airport Trail/96 Ave

Or Just take Deerfoot.

After the tunnel, that would be one route, if you were going to take Stoney. The other way would be to take Stoney to Country Hills Blvd, and take 36th Street/Airport Trail or Barlow Trail down to the airport. It not nearly as appealling for people from the south. I would agree that most would just take deerfoot.

Originally Posted by temple5

I still think the Calgary Airport Authority is probably one of the best run airports in the country, but they way they dealt with the City on this issue makes them look like a bunch of wrinkly duches.

I personally don't see too much issue with the way the Airport handled this. Previously, they had put some money on the table to pay a share of it, but when the city seemed to be going back an forth on it in the days before Nenshi, they pulled their money off the table, at least for upfront costs. Also, their money was always conditional on the other orders of government chipping in, which never happened. Despite how the tunnel has been portrayed in the media sometimes, and even by it's promoters, the primary reason for the tunnel has always to provide an arterial road & future transitway between Deerfoot and the developing area east of the airport. Providing access to the airport itself is a secondary reason, but solely for that reason, it probably wasn't necessary. That's why the Airport kept saying that they didn't need it. They would benefit from it, but not really enough to justify their involvement in it. The final agreement with the city includes the CAA providing some money for the first phase of interchanges and half the money for the ultimate interchanges decades down the road - this is money that the city would not have got without the agreement. So the CAA still is giving money towards the project, it's just money in the future, instead of now. The only main issue with the CAA that I can see is their rejection of the city's traffic studies that said those interchanges wouldn't be required for decades.

Originally Posted by temple5

Until the Tunnel is connected to Metis Trail and Stoney Trail, the Tunnel will be completely useless.

Nope. It will be quite useful, though not quite as useful as with the connection. There will be regular traffic going through the tunnel starting on opening day - including transit. It will be used by people going to and from the airport. It will be used by people going to industrial parks surrounding the airport. It will be used as a cross town route between the NE and NC/NW. etc.

Originally Posted by temple5

I am really surprised the City didn't make this known to shame the Airport Authority in reneging on it.

This is nothing new, it was widely reported at the time the city made the agreement.

[temple5]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Nope. It will be quite useful, though not quite as useful as with the connection. There will be regular traffic going through the tunnel starting on opening day - including transit. It will be used by people going to and from the airport. It will be used by people going to industrial parks surrounding the airport. It will be used as a cross town route between the NE and NC/NW. etc..

Currently 36 st is a 2 lane paved road (according to google maps - maybe this has changed).

As its currently agreed, Airport trail must end at 36 St - yes? Unless 2 interchanges are built at 19 and Barlow, Airport trail cannot be extended past this to Metis or to its logical connection at 60 St NE.

I cant say I am a frequent driver of 36 Street north of 32 Ave but unless some serious upgrading has been done, 36 St north of McKnight is a 2 lane road (I guess we can be thankful that its at last paved).

I am sure the tunnel will be used by at least a few cars an hour in its current configuration, I will drive through it when its done just to do so but as a condition of the airport (this is why I call them duchey) it cannot be extended to its logical connection at 60 St.

[temple5]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

...This is nothing new, it was widely reported at the time the city made the agreement.

As an airport/airlines/aircraft nerd I kept as close as anyone to the news about this. The only condition I remember hearing was that the City would have to pay for interchanges once traffic got to a certain level.

I never once heard that the interchanges were intertwined with extending airport trail past 36 st.

Maybe I missed the news about it ending, I remember hear a bunch about extending it to 36 st, I guess I foolishly assumed that meant it would connect and go futher, not create a T intersection at 36 St.