Windows 8 thread

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by psicodude

They purposely hid the shutdown/reboot button because the need to perform them just isn't really there anymore. The public has been complaining for years about how long it takes to boot your computer, so Microsoft designed an OS that takes advantage of the power saving features built into every computer for the last 10 years. Waking up from a sleep state takes a couple of seconds, not 30 seconds like a full boot from cold.

That said, however, I still shut my computer down every night. Creature of habit I suppose.

I'm finding on an SSD the difference between cold boot and wake is not nearly as bad as before, in the range of 10 vs 3 seconds. I have a sleep button on my keyboard which makes things easy, but if you don't have that, there's about 3 clicks or keystrokes to get to the sleep option, which is a bit more than it should be I think. Unless someone knows of a shortcut (without downloading yet more hacks?)

[psicodude]

You can just create a shortcut to the command line:

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-add...r-and-desktop/

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by psicodude

You can just create a shortcut to the command line:

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-add...r-and-desktop/

It mentions "It should be remembered, however, that there’s no way to terminate a shutdown sequence triggered by any of these commands, so be cautious of accidental clicks" however, you CAN if you change the command slightly.

Change "/t 0" to "/t 10". That changes the timer to 10 seconds versus immediate.

Then create another shortcut to 'shutdown /a' which aborts the pending shutdown/restart task.

[psicodude]

Or, you could just commit to your shutdown like a boss.

[puckluck2]

Ugh just bought a computer and Windows 8 came pre-installed.

Any way to revert back to Windows 7?

[Rathji]

Yes, but I would suggest that you spend $5 on Start8 before going through all that hassle. It returns the old start menu, but in a much improved format.

[Telgip33]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Yes, but I would suggest that you spend $5 on Start8 before going through all that hassle. It returns the old start menu, but in a much improved format.

+1 to what Rathji, I got a new ultrabook with Windows 8 on it, and getting Start 8 was the best $5 I ever spent!

[Hemi-Cuda]

starting an echo chamber, but with Start8 a Windows 8 machine will behave exactly the same as a Windows 7 machine if you want it to (you can disable the start screen/charm bar stuff completely). but you get the benefits of a much faster, secure, and feature rich OS

[psicodude]

Or just try the new start menu out for a day...

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by psicodude

Or just try the new start menu out for a day...

it's inefficient. finding an app in there takes far longer than opening up a start menu and browsing to a folder. and while you can start typing to search for an app the same as Windows 7, with a start menu search you're not forced to switch to a full screen menu which is jarring for the user

it's great on tablets, but the start screen has no place on a desktop computer. the faster Microsoft admits this the faster they'll see some actual adoption of Windows 8. they're shooting themselves in the foot otherwise

[Mike F]

Full disclosure: I don't have Win8 on my PC. Haven't even tried it yet.

That being said, I don't get what the obsession with the old Start Menu is. 95% of what I do in Win7 is launched from an icon on the Task Bar or my Desktop. And most of the time I do use the Start Menu, it's for access to Shut Down or Control Panel. I can't remember the last app I launched from the Start Menu.

[photon]

I don't think it's so much the start menu as it is getting rid of the metro interface.

I agree about the start menu, but I don't use my desktop either, I have a few on my taskbar but usually use launchy.

[Rathji]

The other problem with Windows 8, that Start8 actually doesn't fix, is Metro apps opening only in full screen, with no option to change them.

ModernMix, another $5 Stardock app, which is in Beta, apparently fixes this problem by making them open in regular windows.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

it's inefficient. finding an app in there takes far longer than opening up a start menu and browsing to a folder. and while you can start typing to search for an app the same as Windows 7, with a start menu search you're not forced to switch to a full screen menu which is jarring for the user

it's great on tablets, but the start screen has no place on a desktop computer. the faster Microsoft admits this the faster they'll see some actual adoption of Windows 8. they're shooting themselves in the foot otherwise

I disagree. How is pressing Start, then remembering the developer of a program (say, Adobe), then clicking on the program (Acrobat) more efficient than just clicking the Acrobat icon on the start screen? I have my icons split up by type (work, games, utilities, etc.) and it couldn't be any more efficient. I know you can do the same with the start menu, but it's way more difficult and something an average user would never do.

I will agree with the jarring experience of switching between full screen and back though. I will also admit that I create a desktop icon for my most commonly used applications because I find it easier. It's not perfect, but I believe it is a step in the right direction that just needs some tweaking. I don't miss the old start menu at all.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by psicodude

I disagree. How is pressing Start, then remembering the developer of a program (say, Adobe), then clicking on the program (Acrobat) more efficient than just clicking the Acrobat icon on the start screen? I have my icons split up by type (work, games, utilities, etc.) and it couldn't be any more efficient. I know you can do the same with the start menu, but it's way more difficult and something an average user would never do.

I will agree with the jarring experience of switching between full screen and back though. I will also admit that I create a desktop icon for my most commonly used applications because I find it easier. It's not perfect, but I believe it is a step in the right direction that just needs some tweaking. I don't miss the old start menu at all.

that's if you've put the Acrobat icon in an easy to find place on the Start Screen. it's just as easy if not easier to right click the shortcut and hit Pin to Start Menu. and even if you don't, clicking the Start button, selecting All Programs, then going into the folder you want and opening the app is simple and quick. sure you might take less clicks to do the same thing with the Start Screen, but having to open up a full screen menu then scroll over to find the icon you want takes more time

and speaking of average users, have you seen what the Start Screen looks like by default? after installing all of your applications, it's a friggen mess. do you think the average user is going to spend the time to drag the tiles around to something that makes sense? it's a completely different UI design with a completely different mode of operation than the rest of the OS. it makes sense to have it there for tablets, but it offers absolutely no benefit to desktops

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

it's inefficient. finding an app in there takes far longer than opening up a start menu and browsing to a folder. and while you can start typing to search for an app the same as Windows 7, with a start menu search you're not forced to switch to a full screen menu which is jarring for the user

Rubbish. The only reason it takes longer is because you're not used to it. Remember when the new Start Menu came out in Windows XP? It used to frustrate me to no end the number of IT staff who would set all their servers to default to that stupid classic Start Menu from the Win9x days.

As for it being 'jarring' for the user, lolwut. Any change to an interface that a non-power user is subjected to will be jarring. Again, see Start Menu change from Windows 2000 -> Windows XP.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Rubbish. The only reason it takes longer is because you're not used to it. Remember when the new Start Menu came out in Windows XP? It used to frustrate me to no end the number of IT staff who would set all their servers to default to that stupid classic Start Menu from the Win9x days.

As for it being 'jarring' for the user, lolwut. Any change to an interface that a non-power user is subjected to will be jarring. Again, see Start Menu change from Windows 2000 -> Windows XP.

On my home computer, my start screen fills my monitor - on a 2 month old clean install. On my work PC, the start screen would fill my monitor 3 times over. On a touch screen, swiping over is trivial, but without it complicates things drastically. I need to either arrow key to scroll over, or click the screen to bring up the scroll bar and then use the scroll bar with my mouse. If my mouse(and I know some do) had a side scroll feature, I could see it being a lot easier though.

It would be different if it nicely supported my 2 monitor setup, but during the week before I got Start8, I could not figure it out. Additionally, finding the corner of your monitor to bring your charms out is exponentially harder with 2 monitors than one.

Now, I do agree that you could customize your start menu so that the programs you use are all clustered on the first screen, in nice groups related to their use, but that doubles the effort that everyone uses to set up your desktop/taskbar icons because you have to do it for both UIs. Plus, it makes finding those lesser used programs harder for the typical user.

I think, for me, the problems are this:

- There are 2 UIs, and things behave differently between them
- Without a touch screen, the Metro UI, even though it is possible, it is not quite as efficient to use.

edit: One other thing that I just realized, as someone who logs in remotely using various software to many types of machines, that using the Windows 8/Server 2012 interface becomes more difficult in almost all of those instances.

[Hemi-Cuda]

ya using Windows 8/Server 2012 in a VM environment is a massive pain in the ass, always having to place your mouse in just the right spot to bring up the start screen. installing Classic Shell has become a prerequisite in all of our Server 2012 builds

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

ya using Windows 8/Server 2012 in a VM environment is a massive pain in the ass, always having to place your mouse in just the right spot to bring up the start screen. installing Classic Shell has become a prerequisite in all of our Server 2012 builds

The Metro RDP client available in the Windows App store has a nice workaround for this - you slam your mouse to the bottom of the screen and right click, and it comes up with a set of icons for easy access to the start menu, charms, etc. I think that's how you activate it anyways, been a bit since I last tried.

[puckluck2]

Just downloaded start8 and I love it, thanks for the recommendation guys.