Is Coaching the Biggest Problem? - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Sakari · 03-16-2013, 01:12 PM

5 coaches. And that's the problem. Lol.

BACKCHECK!!! · 03-16-2013, 01:13 PM

No, goaltending has been unquestionably the team's biggest problem this season.

The way Hartley has handled Sven, Backlund, and Cervenka, is just mind bottling. It seems obvious even to most of the peanut gallery that is CalgaryPuck. Strange decisions indeed, given that these guys might be the key to THiS season, in addition to all being crucial components for the club's future.

But he has gotten the team's #1 d-man back on track, and that is a massive plus. Brodie is coming along very well, and Butler hasn't been falling over despite losing his Bouwmeester-training-wheels. Wideman has been playing better than ever, and the defence overall looks ok (outside of a continued drop-off by Giordano).

I think that if Hartley had gotten even barely-adequate goaltending, this team would be in the playoff mix, and management's decision to not blow it up would look prudent and reasonable.

The whole backup goalie debacle has been the real tale of the season for me.

Look around the division, and see the backup situation. Luongo and Schnieder. Varlamov and Giguere. Harding and Backstrom. Dubnyk and Khabibulin (laugh away but they've both been better than any of our 4 goalies). None of those teams are going to nose-dive because one of their goalies go down for a dozen games. Feaster had to scramble to sign McDonald after the fact, and still ended up with probably the worst goalie in the division.

Goaltending has been the problem. First time I've ever really said that about the Flames in about a decade.

Locke · 03-16-2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread

I want to be clear, I'm not ragging on you. I've followed your posts for a while, particularly during the lockout so I know you arent full of it, I know that you know what you're talking about.

I'm just saying that you are discounting too much of the intangibles that made 2004 happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayFlowmeester

Yeah it had nothing to do with the heart and passion the teamed played with, outworking every team every night, or the atmosphere we created in the dome that other teams hated playing in......
Peer magic...

And its been reproduced a grand total of how many times? The planets lined up and everything came together at the right time and.....magic happened.

Seriously, this was a team that hadnt made the playoffs in 7 years, made the playoffs, went on a run, got subsequently bounced in the first round for the next 5 years and now hasnt made the playoffs in 4.

If that run wasnt magic what would you call it? Why do you think the players had all these different little awards and routines to try and re-create it?

That run was the outlier in the statistical story of the Calgary Flames.

It may not have been pure magic, but its close enough to be indistinguishable thereof.

Sakari · 03-16-2013, 01:18 PM

I honestly have faith in Kipper. He's shown that he can still play with the best in a few of his games, I think he, as one of the greats, knows that he needs to be better, his whole team has counted on him for nearly a decade and they can't stop having that reassurance when the team looks as good as it has since the cup finals, and since he knows that, he will probably do everything he can, which is a lot, as we all know, to play like an all star. He, just as much as anyone, wants a cup ring before his career is over, and IMO he deserves it just as much as Iginla for the work he's done here in Calgary.

FAN · 03-16-2013, 01:20 PM

I think the biggest problem is that there's been a constant disconnect between the GM and the coach in terms of the style the team is to play. Of course, the constant coaching changes didn't help matters, but the GM can't acquire players with a certain style of hockey in mind and hire/retain a coach who wants to play a different style.

For me, Hartley gets a free pass by virtue of him being the new coach and not having a full training camp.

zamler · 03-16-2013, 01:22 PM

IgiTang you've lost it.

IgiTang · 03-16-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamler

IgiTang you've lost it.

lol.... uhhhh .... i never had it to begin with...

opendoor · 03-16-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I just can't believe some people expect an immediate turnaround with a simple coaching change. Talk about the instant gratification generation.

Every once in a while, a coaching change has an immediate short term effect, but it is almost always just the beginning of a medium or longer term solution, especially when it involves changing the culture of team and not just "x's and o's".

There have been a lot of studies on coaching changes in various sports and most come to the conclusion that they have little effect other than an occasional short term boost.

Which makes sense if you think about it. If one coach over another had that much of an impact on how well a group of players will perform, they wouldn't be making less than half of what Babchuk gets to sit in the press box. Teams can spend unlimited resources on coaches since it's not subject to the cap but they're still making what a 4th liner makes. There are definitely terrible coaches and excellent ones, but when you're talking established NHL level coaches, they're mostly interchangeable.

Yoho · 03-16-2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opendoor

There have been a lot of studies on coaching changes in various sports and most come to the conclusion that they have little effect other than an occasional short term boost.

Which makes sense if you think about it. If one coach over another had that much of an impact on how well a group of players will perform, they wouldn't be making less than half of what Babchuk gets to sit in the press box. Teams can spend unlimited resources on coaches since it's not subject to the cap but they're still making what a 4th liner makes. There are definitely terrible coaches and excellent ones, but when you're talking established NHL level coaches, they're mostly interchangeable.

In general I agree with this, however ask Amahiem Ducks fans if a coaching change helped.

FlamesAddiction · 03-16-2013, 01:33 PM

If you want to get right down to it, the core problem is that we have not managed assets well (including draft picks). You can point to on ice problems all day, but the root of it is that this team has been managed poorly for years. Most teams do not wait until their star franchise forward is 35 before worrying about replacing him. You either draft one or trade for one, and if you can't you sink... it's as simple as that. And you need to do it in a time frame that allows such a player to be tutored and mentored by the player he is replacing.

I realize that this is easier to say than to do, but past management never really tried. Every trade we made that involved high end players and draft picks was focused on short term gains. How we managed to trade Phaneuf, Regehr and two 1st rounders in a how many 2nd rounders, and never get back a legitimate top-six forward prospect when it was clear that Iginal wasn't getting any younger, is just amazing.

Don't get me wrong, some of the transactions had good short term value, but were also very short sighted.

Flash Walken · 03-16-2013, 01:34 PM

I think Hartley is the worst coach the team has had since Greg Gilbert.

Hartley is consistently out coached.

The team is bad but so it the coaching. Look no further than Calgary last year.

vilzeh · 03-16-2013, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoho

In general I agree with this, however ask Amahiem Ducks fans if a coaching change helped.

Ye, or Penguins. :P

zamler · 03-16-2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoho

In general I agree with this, however ask Amahiem Ducks fans if a coaching change helped.

Plus they have Teenu Selamme.

Locke · 03-16-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamler

Plus they have Teenu Selamme.

I lol'd.

opendoor · 03-16-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoho

In general I agree with this, however ask Amahiem Ducks fans if a coaching change helped.

Boudreau coached them for 58 games last season and they were barely over .500 in those games. Why would he get all the credit for this season?

I'd say the team going from shooting 8.7% last year to 11.8% this year and a vast improvement in their goaltending is why they are where they are. Their shot differential is actually worse than it was last season.

Locke · 03-16-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opendoor

Boudreau coached them for 58 games last season and they were barely over .500 in those games. Why would he get all the credit for this season?

I'd say the team going from shooting 8.7% last year to 11.8% this year and a vast improvement in their goaltending is why they are where they are. Their shot differential is actually worse than it was last season.

Also, their best players were garbage last year.

vilzeh · 03-16-2013, 01:48 PM

I remember Ducks had a huge playoff push last year at the late season? or am I dreaming, well at some point, they were 15 points out of playoffs, lol.

Yoho · 03-16-2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opendoor

Boudreau coached them for 58 games last season and they were barely over .500 in those games. Why would he get all the credit for this season?

I'd say the team going from shooting 8.7% last year to 11.8% this year and a vast improvement in their goaltending is why they are where they are. Their shot differential is actually worse than it was last season.

I wonder if that is how they will introduce him when he wins the Jack Adams this year

opendoor · 03-16-2013, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I remember Ducks had a huge playoff push last year at the late season? or am I dreaming, well at some point, they were 15 points out of playoffs, lol.

They had a hot streak in January and part of February and then they went 7-11-2 over their final 20 games to finish last in their division.

kyuss275 · 03-16-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opendoor

Boudreau coached them for 58 games last season and they were barely over .500 in those games. Why would he get all the credit for this season?

I'd say the team going from shooting 8.7% last year to 11.8% this year and a vast improvement in their goaltending is why they are where they are. Their shot differential is actually worse than it was last season.

Before Boudreau got there they were well bellow .500. Considering they didn't change the team that much if at all last year , that he is a huge step in the right direction.

There top players played like crap last season and he still coached them to a over .500 record says something.