[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by neo45

That is twisting the stats quite a bit. Booth was 26 years old at the time, had played all 82 games the season before, and had a 60 point season under his belt. The reason he was had for cheap was because of his salary and the term of his salary, which is why Tanguay has no value (Tanguay has his age lowering his value)




Samuellson is a terrible comparison because he didn't have 3 more years left on a huge deal. I admit that if Tanguay was an upcoming UFA, a team would want him as a rental, probably more than Samuellson as he is a better player

No the reason he was had for so cheap is that he had a soft melon. Booth had concussion problems that scared teams off. And I am not sure if a 50 point guy is considered cheap either.

Even though they do not play anything like the same type of game, Dustin Penner would be a better comparable. He got the Oilers a former 1st rounder (mid level prospect), a 1st and a 3rd round pick with 1 year left on his deal. He was and is defensively crappy (like you think Tanguay is) and is or was a consistent 40-60 point guy. Less total offensive production than Tanguay but better goal numbers. 3.5 million for years 34, 35 and 36 of a guy who realistically can be expected to put up 50+ points a year over that time, has a history of being relatively healthy and has won in the playoffs before is not going to scare off many teams.

[Bourque's Twin]

Alex Tanguay is NOT an easy player to replace. His hands and offensive skills are unique on the Flames. He is the only guy who can consistently make good passes in the offensive zone.

2010/11 - Finished with 69 points, on pace for 72 points (8th best LW in NHL)
2011/12 - Finished with 49 points, on pace for 63 points (29th best with 29 points, would be 15th best with 63 points)
2012/13 - On pace for 66 points in 82 games (19th best LW in NHL)

What I see is that he's been a top 20 LW in the NHL in terms of putting up points for the last 3 years. That's not easily replaceable.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Alex Tanguay is NOT an easy player to replace. His hands and offensive skills are unique on the Flames. He is the only guy who can consistently make good passes in the offensive zone.

2010/11 - Finished with 69 points, on pace for 72 points (8th best LW in NHL)
2011/12 - Finished with 49 points, on pace for 63 points (29th best with 29 points, would be 15th best with 63 points)
2012/13 - On pace for 66 points in 82 games (19th best LW in NHL)

What I see is that he's been a top 20 LW in the NHL in terms of putting up points for the last 3 years. That's not easily replaceable.

Hudler has a similar skill set. Plus LW is one position where the Flames can afford to lose someone. Cammy, Tanguay, Glencross, Hudler, and Baertschi make them pretty deep there

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by neo45

Hudler has a similar skill set. Plus LW is one position where the Flames can afford to lose someone. Cammy, Tanguay, Glencross, Hudler, and Baertschi make them pretty deep there

Sure but if you're trading from a position of strength it doesn't mean you lose them for nothing just because you can.

[bubbsy]

tanguay gets his points still, though i'm no scout, he doesn't play a very good game any more. he's a turnover machine, who can be a overly pass first guy, who can very quickly be a perimeter player when things aren't going well, who's just avg defensively.

He is definitely worth something, but i would imagine it is a 2nd rounder at best, given his age, remaining contract (it's long, though the $ is good), and diminished play.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Alex Tanguay is NOT an easy player to replace. His hands and offensive skills are unique on the Flames. He is the only guy who can consistently make good passes in the offensive zone.

2010/11 - Finished with 69 points, on pace for 72 points (8th best LW in NHL)
2011/12 - Finished with 49 points, on pace for 63 points (29th best with 29 points, would be 15th best with 63 points)
2012/13 - On pace for 66 points in 82 games (19th best LW in NHL)

What I see is that he's been a top 20 LW in the NHL in terms of putting up points for the last 3 years. That's not easily replaceable.

I do not think anyone is really saying he is easily replaceable, I am just personally hoping they go all Ottawa Senators on this thing and trade almost everyone of value for picks and prospects.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

He is dead serious, 0.8 PPG guys grow on trees in this league, they are a dime a dozen. How could you ever trade Tanguay when you can literally get a 60 point winger on the waiver wire weekly if you wanted to.

Apparently there is going to be 4 or 5 of them on waivers today.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

I do not think anyone is really saying he is easily replaceable, I am just personally hoping they go all Ottawa Senators on this thing and trade almost everyone of value for picks and prospects.

You said he was "a dime a dozen" and players like him "grow on trees". That's why I thought you believed he was easily replaceable.

I hope they do not trade almost everyone for picks and prospects. Way too high of a risk to do that. If they are out of contention by the deadline then trade 3 significant players (Cammalleri, Giordano, Stempniak, etc.), and grab some pretty high picks and decent prospects.


If the Flames cleaned house and traded every veteran the youngsters wouldn't develop properly because they would have no one to play with.

[Torch]

We could trade ten guys and still have alot of veterans!

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I can think of a couple reasons...

1. The NHL has an over abundance 0.80 point per game (60+ point), talented offensive wingers who are signed to below market value $3.5 million cap hits. Any GM can snag a 60+ point winger for free any time he wants. I bet you 4 or 5 of them are waived and claimed later today......it's easy to see how Tanguay would slip through the cracks when so many are freely available.

2. Tanguay had one year out of a 13 year career where point per game totals slipped to a lowly, despicable, embarrassing 0.46 points per game. Yes, you read that correctly. 0.46 points per game!! I honestly cannot believe he is still in the league after that disgusting season. He should be in the ECHL, or Europe at least.

3. He's a Flames player. Our players are all garbage because they are part of a losing team. Nobody ever wants players from a losing team, especially pathetic ones who only chalk up 0.80 points per game for the mammoth cost of Tanguay's $3.5 million cap hit.

4. He's signed at 5% of the total cap number until he's 36. 5% of next years cap until he's THIRTY SIX! He'll likely be nothing more than a pile of dust by then, and what GM would want to pay less than 5% of their cap for a pile of dust?

Originally Posted by Buff

Surely you not serious.

I laid the sarcasm pretty thick, really thought it was blatantly obvious that I wasn't even a little bit serious.

The fact that anyone could possibly believe Tanguay wouldn't be claimed on waivers absolutely blows my mind.

I am of the belief that Tanguay would bring back some nice pieces if he were to be traded to a contender, as he'd be an excellent complimentary piece to any contenders top six forward group.

[868904]

One of the main reasons the Flames suck is because most of their most skilled forwards are not 200 foot players.

Tanguay, Cammy, Cervenka, Hudler, Iginla, Glencross are all pretty bad in the defensive zone and are known to fly the zone early as well. These guys will get points, but usually at the cost of giving up goals as well, and this is reflected in plus/minus.

Iginla and Glencross can play a 200 foot game, but rarely do so anymore.

Hudler is actually a lot better than I thought, but he's still not going to be a Selke candidate anytime soon.

Stajan, Backlund, and Stempniak are probably the best 200 foot players the Flames have and non of them would even be considered elite.

[Igottago]

Its laughable how much some folks want to undervalue the Flames players just because they are Flames players. You would think they all have leprosy or something. The Flames may not be playing well but they definitely have some tradeable assets, and most other teams in the league are far from perfect. A lot of the veterans could contribute nicely to other teams.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I laid the sarcasm pretty thick, really thought it was blatantly obvious that I wasn't even a little bit serious.

The fact that anyone could possibly believe Tanguay wouldn't be claimed on waivers absolutely blows my mind.

I am of the belief that Tanguay would bring back some nice pieces if he were to be traded to a contender, as he'd be an excellent complimentary piece to any contenders top six forward group.

Which is why I used the line from Airplane! (although I screwed it up a little bit)

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

You said he was "a dime a dozen" and players like him "grow on trees". That's why I thought you believed he was easily replaceable.

I hope they do not trade almost everyone for picks and prospects. Way too high of a risk to do that. If they are out of contention by the deadline then trade 3 significant players (Cammalleri, Giordano, Stempniak, etc.), and grab some pretty high picks and decent prospects.


If the Flames cleaned house and traded every veteran the youngsters wouldn't develop properly because they would have no one to play with.

I think CP should ban the green text so that people have to read and see the dripping sarcasm. My point was in response to a post by Roof Daddy where he had a bunch of dripping sarcasm about how Tanguay was a dime a dozen 60 point player whose worst year still saw him average 0.46 PPG and he took up 5% of next years cap, with that number likely decreasing in each of his final two years. Someone asked if serious and I said he was deadly serious, that 60 point guys grow on trees.

Anyways, trading the whole lot of them this year for prospects does not mean they will have no one to play with. They can find veteran talent on the UFA market this summer, amongst veterans who are bought out and through trades with teams with cap trouble. The new CBA creates almost the perfect storm to dump everyone this year for as much as you can get for them and then replenish your veteran leadership in the offseason.

[CliffFletcher]

Keep Tanguay. His skillset will age better, and a passer can help younger skill players develop better than a sniper.

Move Cammalleri.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Keep Tanguay. His skillset will age better, and a passer can help younger skill players develop better than a sniper.

Move Cammalleri.

Exactly.

Cammy's salary may not be the most attractive for a trade piece, but I would be looking everywhere for a trade partner who would be willing to take on Cammy in exchange for a bigger/grittier player or draft pick.

[afc wimbledon]

The reality is you trade who you can, if you are offered enough you move every last one of your over 28's.

You do not keep any player on this team specifically to 'help train youngsters' that is what you pay coach's for and anyway given draft picks coming into the organization next year most or all of the current older players will be gone or going before they even come into regular contact with the next two years draftees.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The reality is you trade who you can, if you are offered enough you move every last one of your over 28's.

You do not keep any player on this team specifically to 'help train youngsters' that is what you pay coach's for and anyway given draft picks coming into the organization next year most or all of the current older players will be gone or going before they even come into regular contact with the next two years draftees.

You don't keep Tanguay to train younger players - you keep him to pass them the puck. Especially on the power play. Think Ray Whitney.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You don't keep Tanguay to train younger players - you keep him to pass them the puck. Especially on the power play. Think Ray Whitney.

Think 3 to 5 years before the team can actually use him, if you think hes worth more then than a 1st round pick or a prospect now fair enough.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You don't keep Tanguay to train younger players - you keep him to pass them the puck. Especially on the power play. Think Ray Whitney.

If Iginla is moved, you must as well clean house and start anew. A general apathy seems to be in the lockerroom that goes beyond the camp and has settled on this team for years. Iginla alone isn't the problem so moving him won't be the only solution.

You don't have to move them all now but this years deadline is a good time to move Iginla and one of Cammaleri/Tanguay or Giordano/Bouwmeester.

Comeau has picked up his game and played hard all season, I wonder if Feaster flips him for a 4th or 5th rounder. All picks count at this point.