Phaneuf +/- after first 5 games

[Da_Chief]

+/- is a dumb stat.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

After 28 games, Dion is -11 which puts him at 252 of 261 defensemen on NHL.com.

but but but... we got screwed!!!

Phaneuf at $3mil/year would be pretty awesome though.

[troutman]

-11 in the East is double bad.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by troutman

-11 in the East is double bad.

-11 when your teammate, Mark Fraser is +16 and making $600k/year is triply bad.

[Brannigans Law]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

but but but... we got screwed!!!

That's like selling a 3 year old Hummer on Kijiji for 1000 dollars, then the owner accidently blows it up with no insurance coverage and bragging about how it was a good deal in the end.

Yes Dion stinks now and stunk then but his value was so much higher. How does still keep getting debated?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

That's like selling a 3 year old Hummer on Kijiji for 1000 dollars, then the owner accidently blows it up with no insurance coverage and bragging about how it was a good deal in the end.

Yes Dion stinks now and stunk then but his value was so much higher. How does still keep getting debated?

Thats the thing. It wasn't. He was on a 3 year slide when we got rid of him, and he was horrid with Regehr the year we traded him. Also does one just simply ignore the $6.5mil cap hit?

But that is a great comparison though. If Phanuef was a car he would definitely be a Hummer.

[Brannigans Law]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Thats the thing. It wasn't. He was on a 3 year slide when we got rid of him, and he was horrid with Regehr the year we traded him. Also does one just simply ignore the $6.5mil cap hit?

But that is a great comparison though. If Phanuef was a car he would definitely be a Hummer.

I've always thought of Dion as a lumbering caveman.

His trade value wasn't spare parts. We can agree to disagree on that.

[bubbsy]

phanuef has been fine. He's not a great shutdown dman.

I think it's tough to be a good offensive-focussed young dman. You put up points and get all kinds of recognition, you get the big pay day, and are considered a top pairing dman. Unfortunately, now you're stuck playing against other team's top lines, and are exposed defensively at times, and are not able to jump into the rush and pot the kind of numbers as you did to get the contract.

i feel like this is a continuing trend in the new nhl, where offensive dmen are considered so valuable.

to be fair to phaneuf, he's usually playing with a "nobody" partner.

[Ped]

Phaneuf has not been very good defensively, but surely being paired with a career minor-leaguer on a team with poor defensive awareness amongst the forwards surely doesn't help either.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Ped

Phaneuf has not been very good defensively, but surely being paired with a career minor-leaguer on a team with poor defensive awareness amongst the forwards surely doesn't help either.

Explain the Fraser/Franson pairing with the same forwards.

Lots of excuses for the Dion. Who were the no name dmen he played with here? Hamrlik, Giordano, Aucoin, Regehr??

and i would take Holzer over Butler in a heartbeat!

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Explain the Fraser/Franson pairing with the same forwards.

Lots of excuses for the Dion. Who were the no name dmen he played with here? Hamrlik, Giordano, Aucoin, Regehr??

and i would take Holzer over Butler in a heartbeat!

what partner??

Phaneuf played 28 mins last night. The next closest dman on the team was gunnarson who played 22 mins. That's not even close.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Explain the Fraser/Franson pairing with the same forwards.

Lots of excuses for the Dion. Who were the no name dmen he played with here? Hamrlik, Giordano, Aucoin, Regehr??

and i would take Holzer over Butler in a heartbeat!

Hard to take you seriously, when you think Anton should be a regular in the flames line up.

Flames lost the trade hands down, time to move on.

[East Coast Flame]

It was still a terrible trade

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

what partner??

Phaneuf played 28 mins last night. The next closest dman on the team was gunnarson who played 22 mins. That's not even close.

Great point. So where is this "offensive upside" that makes him highly valued?

He has 4 goals and 15 points in 28 games playing 25 minutes a game.

The Leafs lost the trade too.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Explain the Fraser/Franson pairing with the same forwards.

Lots of excuses for the Dion. Who were the no name dmen he played with here? Hamrlik, Giordano, Aucoin, Regehr??

and i would take Holzer over Butler in a heartbeat!

No excuses at all. He's not very good defensively and never will be.

My point was plus/minus is not just a stat you can look at and say he sucks or he is great.

But comparing the minutes that Fraser plays to the minutes that Phaneuf plays is not a good comparison, both in terms of quantity and quality.

Nowhere did I say Phaneuf has been good.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Hard to take you seriously, when you think Anton should be a regular in the flames line up.

Flames lost the trade hands down, time to move on.

Carlyle must be an idiot too because he is playing Holzer big time minutes ahead of Liles, Komisarek and Gardiner.

Holzer is exactly the type of dman we need as a 4,5, or 6 and not some butlersoft guys.

He would have the most hits on our team with 56 and 2nd in block shots with 51 in 21 games.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Ped

No excuses at all. He's not very good defensively and never will be.

My point was plus/minus is not just a stat you can look at and say he sucks or he is great.

But comparing the minutes that Fraser plays to the minutes that Phaneuf plays is not a good comparison, both in terms of quantity and quality.

Nowhere did I say Phaneuf has been good.

No. The excuse was that Phaneuf always have a 'nobody' to play with him.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Great point. So where is this "offensive upside" that makes him highly valued?

He has 4 goals and 15 points in 28 games playing 25 minutes a game.

The Leafs lost the trade too.

Meanwhile, Jbo is 5+8 for 13p in 25 games, averaging 25 mins a game, and we're all loving his offensive production.

Phaneuf's production has been fine.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Great point. So where is this "offensive upside" that makes him highly valued?

He has 4 goals and 15 points in 28 games playing 25 minutes a game.

The Leafs lost the trade too.

see my post above. Decent young offensive dmen get top pairing money, and are now playing against other team's top lines. If he were playing less strenuous defensive minutes (ie. playing against crosby EVERY shift last night) i would think he is able to get more done offensively.

See what's happening to gio now, and in past years. As soon as he's put in a more responsible role playing against top lines, not only does he look worse defensively, but his offense is completely null.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

No. The excuse was that Phaneuf always have a 'nobody' to play with him.

Only you could read someone saying something doesn't help as an excuse absolving of all blame.