2012/13 General Heat Discussion Thread

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Blair Jones finally pots one! 2-1 Heat with half the game to go in Toronto.

Mike Testwuide also got his first point as a member of the Heat on Ruegsegger's goal.

EDIT - Now Aliu scores! Assist to Bancks. 3-1 Heat.

They must have heard that Baertschi is heading back to Abby. Hopefully this turns the Heat season back around.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Nemisz and Carter Ashton just dropped the gloves! Ashton got the best of him, but still surprising to see Nemisz fight.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

4-1 Heat. Bancks from Aliu this time!

[LockedOut]

Looks like Irving's back in the pressbox already after 1 bad start.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Just wanted to respond to those who feel Ward is incompetent as a developmental coach.

First off, I understand all your points. I too see players coming from junior and being unable to cut it on the Heat. I see players from other AHL teams that have had excellent numbers, then they come to the Heat and can't cut it. I get that.

But to put those issues entirely on the shoulders of Ward is wrong.

Every player you guys name has had both success and failure under Ward. Horak, for example, is what he is. He's a streaky offensive player with a good defensive game and doesn't look out of place at all at the NHL level (especially in his last stint with the Flames).

Brodie rounded out his game to near perfection under the guidance of Ward's instruction. Look at him now. He's a future top 2 d-man with the Flames IMO. Breen had a good rookie year under Playfair. In his sophomore pro season he had what could be considered a very slight bump in the road under Ward, but essentially performed the exact same has he did under Playfair. Now, Breen is having an unbelievable season under Ward and is playing half-an-hour a game. He's a work horse and I'd put money on him becoming a 5-6 d-man with the Flames next season.

Let's look at the less successful prospects like Howse, Wahl and Nemisz. Howse's case is well documented and has been regurgitated over and over again on this message board. He worked daily with Mike Thompson to get his conditioning and eating habits under control. He was then given playing time in this top 9, but couldn't score for the life of him - but not without his chances. That's not on Ward.

Wahl, from what I understand, didn't have the greatest attitude or work ethic. The year when he almost broke the Flames lineup went to his head. When a player feels entitled, that's not on the coach, that's on the player. Could Ward have given him top 6 time with the Heat? Sure, but not for the sake that he was considered a top prospect. Wahl's attitude and entitlement set him back.

Nemisz has had huge ups and huge downs under Ward. He started last season with 18 points in his first 22 games. About the same as Baertschi this season. He's been hurt on and off since late last season. This season, it's anyone's mystery why isn't on at least a 0.5 PPG pace. He's hit so many cross bars and open nets and made so many passes to players that have hit cross bars and empty nets that it's almost humorous. Not Ward's fault.

And Reinhart being a healthy scratch has been received with one of the biggest overreactions I've seen from CP. He's been a healthy scratch twice this season. The first time, he responded extremely well and started putting up points. The second time, which he just came off of, he's been getting so many unbelievable scoring chances, but is absolutely snake bitten. He's not getting 5 minutes a game like some have been saying. He's getting 5 minutes a period. He's not being played in an exclusive checking role. He's being played in every situation you can imagine - including defensive ones. Reinhart is the exact model for what all of the critics on CP want from Ward! A prospect who is being thrown to the wolves to succeed or fail on his own terms and abilities!

Then there's some who say Ward sits the prospects too much and the vets not enough. Trust me, no one has been benched period-to-period and healthy scratched in my time as a Heat viewer than Kolanos. Hell, he was even suspended by Ward earlier in the year! The power play units, for example, have had Horak, Reinhart, Street, Ruegsegger, Lamb, Nemisz, Jones, Walter, Kolanos, Laing (who stands in front of the net), MacKenzie, and Matczak. By my count, that's eight players who could be considered potential Flames one day and/or prospects and three veterans. No veterans are getting spots over prospects. It's just not happening. If you're response is why isn't Bancks or Aliu getting power play time... shake your head. That's not their role.

My final thought is to think about all the players who have been called up to the Flames in the past two seasons under Ward. Who has looked out of place or couldn't keep up? For me, it's been Kolanos, Piskula and Wilson. Horak, Byron, Nemisz, Brodie and Aliu have all been able to keep up with the play and contribute in some way. That's progress and that's Ward's doing.

Go back to October and November when mostly everyone was healthy. They were the best team playing in North America. Literally the best team. Sven, Horak and Brodie were shouldering the load and leading the team. There was enough offense to go around for three teams. Now, the lockout ends, the Heat hit a dry spell and it's all on Ward shoulders. C'mon guys. Was it not on Ward's shoulders when the team was scoring like crazy and fun to watch all while maintaining the stingiest defense in the AHL?

With that said, my one and only complaint or criticism of Ward would be the handling of Irving at the end of last season and this season. I don't know what happened behind the scenes, I don't know what happened off the ice. All I know is that Irving struggled terribly in the midst of becoming a father and so he played backup. I think that's my only complaint of Ward and it may have been justified on his part.

Anyways, that's just my two cents. Until Ward shows incompetence, which he hasn't yet, he'll have my support.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

My final thought is to think about all the players who have been called up to the Flames in the past two seasons under Ward. Who has looked out of place or couldn't keep up? For me, it's been Kolanos, Piskula and Wilson. Horak, Byron, Nemisz, Brodie and Aliu have all been able to keep up with the play and contribute in some way. That's progress and that's Ward's doing.

As mentioned before I haven't seen enough yet to say either way but would prefer Baertschi not go back down so maybe I am leaning with him being worse with prospects than better. I think overall he seems like a decent/average AHL coach and likely decent/average prospect developer. He hasn't had the best group to work with so that has to be taken into consideration.

I would add Aliu, Byron and Nemisz as guys that looked out of place and Street added nothing but took nothing away so I guess he is even not good/not bad.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by moon

As mentioned before I haven't seen enough yet to say either way but would prefer Baertschi not go back down so maybe I am leaning with him being worse with prospects than better. I think overall he seems like a decent/average AHL coach and likely decent/average prospect developer. He hasn't had the best group to work with so that has to be taken into consideration.

I would add Aliu, Byron and Nemisz as guys that looked out of place and Street added nothing but took nothing away so I guess he is even not good/not bad.

I wouldn't say Byron has looked out of place. He hasn't been a difference maker but he's always involved. His size is what does him in. Aliu has also looked okay but I don't think he can keep it up when the adrenalin wears off after a few games. Nemisz has been progressing judging by his last call up. He was no longer a tourist and was getting involved in the play. He's not ready for full time but I wouldn't give up on him.

My biggest beef with Ward is his handling of Irving. The other thing I don't understand is moving Horak to the wing when we need centres but that may have come from higher up. I guess the thing with Ward is, is he having success. I don't think he is considering he has some good players.

[Northern Lites]

"Wahl, from what I understand, didn't have the greatest attitude or work ethic. The year when he almost broke the Flames lineup went to his head. When a player feels entitled, that's not on the coach, that's on the player. Could Ward have given him top 6 time with the Heat? Sure, but not for the sake that he was considered a top prospect. Wahl's attitude and entitlement set him back."

I don't think it is fair to comment on Wahl based on heresay. I doubt anything 'went to his head". To say his attitude and entitlement set him back is based on what???? Have you witnessed his attitude and entitlement? A lot of negative comments on many players have come from posters who have never seen these players in a game ever and know nothing about them except what they read from posts and some of those comments come in the form of gossip. As far as Ward goes, he talks a lot of about "this and that", brings in players that he knows and favours.....perhaps no different than any other coach. However it is not always the players with the 'narcissist" behaviour.

[868904]

Great post PMM, but until I see some results, in terms of pro prospects graduating full time to the Flames and being regular and impactful contributors, I'm going to have to hold my applause and support for Troy G WArd.

[Ashasx]

Will Baertschi be playing tomorrow?

[KOgear]

How has Mark Testiwude looked, i'm guessing he's playing 3/4 line role?

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by 868904

Great post PMM, but until I see some results, in terms of pro prospects graduating full time to the Flames and being regular and impactful contributors, I'm going to have to hold my applause and support for Troy G WArd.

I agree. I'm sort of with you. At the same time, I don't think he's entirely deserving of the type of criticism he's been getting lately on CP. With the exception of the whole Irving thing, I don't think he deserves a great deal of praise nor criticism.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Will Baertschi be playing tomorrow?

He's playing right now. He's on a line with Horak, so we'll see what they can do. It's 2-1 for the Amerks right now. Aliu's the lone goal scorer so far (midway through the game).

Originally Posted by KOgear

How has Mark Testiwude looked, i'm guessing he's playing 3/4 line role?

Meh. I haven't seen much of him. He's pretty physical, but really he hasn't shown anything spectacular so far.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

The rookie Drew MacKenzie gets his first career AHL goal. All tied up 2-2 in the third period. This is a huge divisional game, so that was a clutch goal.

EDIT - Off to OT.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Amerks win the game in the 11th round of the shootout. Aliu and MacKenzie the goal scorers for the Heat.

Aliu now has two goals, an assist, and a shootout goal in his last two games. Taylor stopped 30 of 32 shots.

It's not two points, but it will help a bit.

[Alberta_Beef]

jesus 11 rounds?

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

jesus 11 rounds?

I listened to the game. The Heat and Amerks kept trading goals and saves with neither team able to get the go-ahead. More enjoyable than watching the Flames this week. Jones, Horak and Bart sounded like they had a good game.

[Northern Lites]

James Martin is being called up from Utah, looks like Tuzzo is going back to Utah. I have watched quite a few Grizz games this year and I like James Martin but interestingly enough Gaelan Patterson was put on defense for quite a stretch this season as the Grizz were short d-men and quite frankly I thought he was, most games I watched, their best d-man.....more like a Brodie type. Likley too late to make that change at this point......

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

My story on Danny Taylor's year so far: http://theahl.com/a-year-to-remember...taylor-p182486

[Nemisz/Breen]

Howse, sent back to Utah, guess Sven made him expendable.

[Ashasx]

Can anyone point me in the direction where I can find TOI stats for the Heat?