Justin Trudeau running for Liberal leadership

[Jacks]

Glad to see you are happy with yet another coronation rather than a campaign with real ideas and policy.

Originally Posted by Slava

The mere fact that this is a group of pure Wildrose/CPC supporters saying he should've stuck it out basically tells me he made the right decision. I happen to like Garneau, and other candidates ahead of Justin, but rank and file CPC supporters saying that because its Trudeau who will win is what is going to have them vote Harper again is hilarious.

Who said they were voting Liberal if Garneau won? only Zarley from what I see.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

The mere fact that this is a group of pure Wildrose/CPC supporters saying he should've stuck it out basically tells me he made the right decision. I happen to like Garneau, and other candidates ahead of Justin, but rank and file CPC supporters saying that because its Trudeau who will win is what is going to have them vote Harper again is hilarious.

Seriously

How am I a pure Wildrose supporter since I voted mistakenly for the Conservatives in the last election, and its not like the Liberal party has given me any reason to vote for them for a long time.

if you can't see that there is something wrong with a Liberal party throwing a desperate roll of the dice on yet another unprepared wrong leader then I don't know what to say.

Part of me wants to see Trudeau get creamed because of who he is, a bigger part of me want to see him get creamed because of what he is. A large part of me feels bad for the Libs because they remind me of the flames under their current management. Misguided.

[Slava]

I would much rather a race with ideas and debates. The reality is the one of the best 'ideas' candidates in the race is Deborah Coyne (IMO, for whatever that's worth), but she has zero chance of winning. There are also people like Joyce Murray who is very different from the now departed Garneau or Trudeau.

I just find it amusing that Garneau drops and we have a page of CPC supporters saying he should man up and stay in. Why? The writing is on the wall? Basically all he would be doing is attacking Trudeau and get to see those attacks replayed in CPC attack ads in the next election (if they wait that long). The thing that the polls continually bear though is that a Trudeau-led LPC is a solid challenger to the CPC. The next election might be very interesting.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Slava

The mere fact that this is a group of pure Wildrose/CPC supporters saying he should've stuck it out basically tells me he made the right decision. I happen to like Garneau, and other candidates ahead of Justin, but rank and file CPC supporters saying that because its Trudeau who will win is what is going to have them vote Harper again is hilarious.

I support the CPC at the moment but was excited to see Garneau in the mix. How I would vote is not a concern as my riding probably had the biggest sweep of the election with 75% voting conservative and only 3% for the Liberal candidate.

That said, I thought Garneau looked reasonable and someone that could have a positive impact in the opposition position.
Politics isn't all all or nothing, sometimes we can like a bit of each.

[SebC]

Cheer up, conservatives. Hall-Findlay is still in the race and she has tons of substance. A great alternative to Stephen Harper, if that's really what you're looking for.

Or maybe you're just anti-Trudeau because you're afraid of him.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I would much rather a race with ideas and debates. The reality is the one of the best 'ideas' candidates in the race is Deborah Coyne (IMO, for whatever that's worth), but she has zero chance of winning. There are also people like Joyce Murray who is very different from the now departed Garneau or Trudeau.

I guess my problem is this was never a leadership race it was designed specifically to appoint Trudeau. Good ideas don't matter in the Liberal party anymore. I wanted to see Garneau fight because I believe strongly that he is a person that's worth listening to and leadership worthy.

Originally Posted by Slava;4131429I

just find it amusing that Garneau drops and we have a page of CPC supporters saying he should man up and stay in. Why? The writing is on the wall? Basically all he would be doing is attacking Trudeau and get to see those attacks replayed in CPC attack ads in the next election (if they wait that long). The thing that the polls continually bear though is that a Trudeau-led LPC is a solid challenger to the CPC. The next election might be very interesting.

Those attacks are going to come anyways. Between skipping his job to go get money at speaking engagements, whining about press coverage from media that aren't friendly to him to his stances on Quebec and his stupid comments about Alberta, I don't think there was much more ammo that a proper fight would bring out.

the polls are irrelevant at this point, he's still not only very much in the honeymoon period, but the leadership race was built and designed for him to look strong compared to the other candidates.

Give it a few months and it will start to slip especially if he's named the leader of the Liberal party and expected to perform like he has two ounces worth of brains in his head.

I think that even Elizabeth May has probably more leadership credential then Junior does.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by SebC

Or maybe you're just anti-Trudeau because you're afraid of him.

I've historically been a Liberal-supporter (of the blue liberal variety) and I'm afraid of Trudeau mainly because I think he could actually win.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SebC

Cheer up, conservatives. Hall-Findlay is still in the race and she has tons of substance. A great alternative to Stephen Harper, if that's really what you're looking for.

Or maybe you're just anti-Trudeau because you're afraid of him.

Hall Findlay has pretty much been a failure at every level federally, she loses elections and leadership campaigns like a navy person loses their paycheck everytime they hit a port.

And afraid of Trudeau? Hardly maybe I'm anti Trudeau because I think he's fairly worthless, a prime example of the Peter Principle and just as dangerous as his old man if he ever gets any kind of power.

When he's done playing politician, maybe he can go write a fiction book on how great he is.

[Jacks]

Whether Trudeau or Garneau win doesn't really matter to me since I wouldn't be voting for them anyway, obviously I'm (mostly) supportive of the current government. That being said I would like to see a credible opposition to keep the Tories in check. The NDP are a joke and I dread the thought of a lightweight like Trudeau ever running anything.

[Barnet Flame]

If he is half as good as his Dad, he'll be twice as ####.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Hall Findlay has pretty much been a failure at every level federally, she loses elections and leadership campaigns like a navy person loses their paycheck everytime they hit a port.

And afraid of Trudeau? Hardly maybe I'm anti Trudeau because I think he's fairly worthless, a prime example of the Peter Principle and just as dangerous as his old man if he ever gets any kind of power.

When he's done playing politician, maybe he can go write a fiction book on how great he is.

One reason that I am warming up to Justin is that he is actually much further right on the political spectrum than his father. As for the 'trust fund kid' idea, I am happy to read about him being the type of guy to get a #### service job rather than rely on his family money. Apparently Pierre was the type of guy that did not want to spoil his kids as much as a normal wealthy parent would.

He also has pretty well reasoned ideas that have swayed me... but the main reason for my coming around is that he cut his hair down from 'wild and unruly' to 'shorter and sexy'.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Hall Findlay has pretty much been a failure at every level federally, she loses elections and leadership campaigns like a navy person loses their paycheck everytime they hit a port.

She's obviously not a strong campaigner, but campaigning and governing are two very different things.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SebC

She's obviously not a strong campaigner, but campaigning and governing are two very different things.

You cannot have one without the other

Unless you work in a system based on political appointment.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SebC

She's obviously not a strong campaigner, but campaigning and governing are two very different things.

Martha Hall-Finley is who should win, based on ideas and ability to govern. Trudeau is who will win based on flash.

But maybe I'm wrong, and the Libs will pick the substance candidate over the flash candidate, like the last Calgary mayoral election.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

The mere fact that this is a group of pure Wildrose/CPC supporters saying he should've stuck it out basically tells me he made the right decision. I happen to like Garneau, and other candidates ahead of Justin, but rank and file CPC supporters saying that because its Trudeau who will win is what is going to have them vote Harper again is hilarious.

Wow that's a pretty terrible view of the makeup of Canada, someone who you know could sway potential voters from a party you disagree with is someone you won't support?!?

The bottom line is that in any democracy it is much healthier to have a change in government every so often to reduce the inevitable occurance of corruption and waste. Power always corrupts.

Thus, when we are seeing a CPC that is beginning to show signs of problems, I think it would be healthier to have a Liberal Party moving ahead with a leader that could capture the center and govern all of Canada instead of one who will likely further fracture the electorate and in my mind solidify many more years of Conservative rule.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You cannot have one without the other.

A flaw in our system, though a necessary one.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SebC

A flaw in our system, though a necessary one.

I don't believe its a flaw, I believe its a political necessity that forces any candidate to understand the view of their possible constituents and gain support from them.

If you didn't have the campaigning process I believe that you would have a worse system based on cronyism to gain appointments.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Wow that's a pretty terrible view of the makeup of Canada, someone who you know could sway potential voters from a party you disagree with is someone you won't support?!?

The bottom line is that in any democracy it is much healthier to have a change in government every so often to reduce the inevitable occurance of corruption and waste. Power always corrupts.

Thus, when we are seeing a CPC that is beginning to show signs of problems, I think it would be healthier to have a Liberal Party moving ahead with a leader that could capture the center and govern all of Canada instead of one who will likely further fracture the electorate and in my mind solidify many more years of Conservative rule.

I'm generally a conservative supporter, but would vote liberal in the right circumstances, like a thoughtful moderate liberal leader and a conservative government that had grown contemptful of the electorate from too many years in power. Just a thought for the liberals. I think they'll be sadly mistaken if they shift leftward to try and fend off the NDP. If they wish to govern, they need to own the centre, as they did for most of the last century. Some actual ideas (as opposed to great hair) would probably help as well.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I think they'll be sadly mistaken if they shift leftward to try and fend off the NDP. If they wish to govern, they need to own the centre, as they did for most of the last century. Some actual ideas (as opposed to great hair) would probably help as well.

Keep in mind that for much of that time the NDP was a fringe party so the Liberals owned most of the left and centre left. Then in the early 90's the right fractured into 2 camps that allowed the Libs to occupy the dead centre. Now that their is only one right - centre right option the Libs need to drift a bit left and eat the NDP's lunch to win. I agree though that if they go too far they will cede more of the centre to the Cons then they already have. Quite the balancing act really.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Keep in mind that for much of that time the NDP was a fringe party so the Liberals owned most of the left and centre left. Then in the early 90's the right fractured into 2 camps that allowed the Libs to occupy the dead centre. Now that their is only one right - centre right option the Libs need to drift a bit left and eat the NDP's lunch to win. I agree though that if they go too far they will cede more of the centre to the Cons then they already have. Quite the balancing act really.

I totally disagree. I think the Liberal Party could be quite effective in reclaiming the center by focusing on fiscally conservative policies. As we have seen the current CPC really hasn't been able to claim any right to the fiscally responsible portion of the political spectrum... just the best option of those available.