[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

if the answer was "yes" would your post have been shorter?

Yes

[Tinordi]

Calgary4life:

Every heard the expression, brevity is the soul of wit?

Unsolicited advice: Get to the point without the wall of text.

At least then I would read your posts.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Calgary4life:

Every heard the expression, brevity is the soul of wit?

Unsolicited advice: Get to the point without the wall of text.

At least then I would read your posts.

This is a discussion forum, every poster here signed up to discuss things. Sometimes that involves a wall of text.

Calgary4life, keep posting wall of texts. That's what this forum used to be and what it hopefully will be again.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Are people getting their pitchforks out just to.. get them out?

Ken King:
Everyone keeps saying the same two things about him:
1) He is 'meddling' in hockey ops
2) He is a 'newspaper man', not a 'hockey guy'

Let's address the first. Is there a single shred of proof that exists showing that Ken King is meddling? Has any ex-coach stated he is meddling? What is his role? He is responsible for the business side, It just isn't a good team. There is no 'blue print to guaranteed success', and almost always the team that is put together fails to get it down, and you have to change it. Arming yourself with pitchforks and trying to find the virgin sacrifice will not appease the hockey gods, and the next iteration of the Calgary Flames may still fail!

I just think people are looking too hard to place blame where it can make sense for them to do so, regardless of what the truth is or not.

At the end of the day, the Flames have an ownership group that wants to win and have no qualms about spending money to do it. If there are management personnel that are keeping the Flames from doing it, I am sure they will have no trouble replacing them, as they have in the past. The owners are not scared of losing a few bucks. If they were, this would not be a cap team season after season.

At the very least, the Flames are one of the few teams in the league with VERY stable ownership who are committed to winning. Without it, a team has ZERO chance of being successful on the ice (outside of a lucky year or two).

I think the reason many (including myself0 see the dread hand of King or Murrey (or both as I believe) on the team is because it has been clear for 3 seasons the team is done and needs to be rebuilt, now when Sutter was in charge you could argue he was a stubbern old sod and was riding his team into the sunset come hell or high water, but when Feaster was hired to replace Sutter (with little due process, which in hockey/business terms tends to be the equivalent of fingers in the ears singing 'I can't hear you') and yet he continued to follow the same completely senseless path that Sutter had taken the team it makes no hockey sense what so ever.

So either Feaster is a moron or someone with no hockey smarts what so ever is realy running the show and Feaster is just being a good lawyer and following his clients instructions, them's your choices pick whichever.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Keenan basically said it was Edwards and King that fired him. He also claims Darryl Sutter said as much.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/04/04...flames-hatchet

I remember him saying this on the fan as well.

I remember this as well. I am not sure I would take it at face value, and I realize I am therefore making an assumption - therefore my argument may indeed not be valid, but here goes:

I assume that Darryl had a hard time letting Keenan go due to their past history together. Easier to just say: "The owners want you gone" instead of: "I want you gone and replaced with my brother, and the owners have agreed to it."

Darryl pretty much enjoyed a high degree of autonomy in those days.

However, it is an assumption. You are right - if this is indeed true, this is the only legitimate 'proof' I can think of that shows owners (or KK) are meddling. Everything else I heard is basically hearsay it seems.

[Flash Walken]

An assumption would be suggesting sutter had autonomy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think the reason many (including myself0 see the dread hand of King or Murrey (or both as I believe) on the team is because it has been clear for 3 seasons the team is done and needs to be rebuilt, now when Sutter was in charge you could argue he was a stubbern old sod and was riding his team into the sunset come hell or high water, but when Feaster was hired to replace Sutter (with little due process, which in hockey/business terms tends to be the equivalent of fingers in the ears singing 'I can't hear you') and yet he continued to follow the same completely senseless path that Sutter had taken the team it makes no hockey sense what so ever.

So either Feaster is a moron or someone with no hockey smarts what so ever is realy running the show and Feaster is just being a good lawyer and following his clients instructions, them's your choices pick whichever.

I definitely don't like the way Feaster was hired. I didn't like the hire at all as the AGM. I liked it less after he became the GM, and hated the fact that they didn't interview anyone else.

What I think Feaster sold them on was 'this team is close' - we don't need to rebuild like other teams do, but rather rebuild slowly and get younger slowly = or something like that.

This team has been getting younger, and they have stopped trading picks away for 'win now'. I think this was Feaster's 'plan' to the owners, and this is why they decided to hire him on it.

Question is what will the owners do now that this plan seems to have failed? I still don't see the 'meddling' aspect - I see them as a bunch of owners that want to win, and got suckered by a smooth talking Feaster with a 'plan' that they wanted to believe in.

[mikephoen]

If the proof of meddling is signing glencross to a great contract and firing Keenan, then maybe KK and Edwards should do more of it...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I definitely don't like the way Feaster was hired. I didn't like the hire at all as the AGM. I liked it less after he became the GM, and hated the fact that they didn't interview anyone else.

What I think Feaster sold them on was 'this team is close' - we don't need to rebuild like other teams do, but rather rebuild slowly and get younger slowly = or something like that.

This team has been getting younger, and they have stopped trading picks away for 'win now'. I think this was Feaster's 'plan' to the owners, and this is why they decided to hire him on it.

Question is what will the owners do now that this plan seems to have failed? I still don't see the 'meddling' aspect - I see them as a bunch of owners that want to win, and got suckered by a smooth talking Feaster with a 'plan' that they wanted to believe in.

In essence though this is meddeling, if you work for a boss thats an idiot and you know you can only do a job a certain, stupid, way or he'll can your arse, then he is meddling even if it is only on the level of you not being able to be honest with him and then do what needs to be done.

I don't think anyone is suggesting King rings up Feaster and tells him to go get him a coffee, just that Feaster knows he is only allowed to operate as the GM within the parameters the owners have set, ie no rebuild

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I remember this as well. I am not sure I would take it at face value, and I realize I am therefore making an assumption - therefore my argument may indeed not be valid, but here goes:

I assume that Darryl had a hard time letting Keenan go due to their past history together. Easier to just say: "The owners want you gone" instead of: "I want you gone and replaced with my brother, and the owners have agreed to it."

Darryl pretty much enjoyed a high degree of autonomy in those days.

However, it is an assumption. You are right - if this is indeed true, this is the only legitimate 'proof' I can think of that shows owners (or KK) are meddling. Everything else I heard is basically hearsay it seems.

I highly doubt that is the case. Darryl is a straight shooter - just ask Phil Sauve!

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I definitely don't like the way Feaster was hired. I didn't like the hire at all as the AGM. I liked it less after he became the GM, and hated the fact that they didn't interview anyone else.

What I think Feaster sold them on was 'this team is close' - we don't need to rebuild like other teams do, but rather rebuild slowly and get younger slowly = or something like that.

This team has been getting younger, and they have stopped trading picks away for 'win now'. I think this was Feaster's 'plan' to the owners, and this is why they decided to hire him on it.

Question is what will the owners do now that this plan seems to have failed? I still don't see the 'meddling' aspect - I see them as a bunch of owners that want to win, and got suckered by a smooth talking Feaster with a 'plan' that they wanted to believe in.

Still don't believe this to be true

[Wronskian]

I could see something like this happen; decide to change organizational mentality internally (ie. secretly), remove Feaster and replace with Burke or another GM and in doing so imply that the mentality of 'win-now' was all from Feaster.

At this point there is more fans calling for re-tool/re-built than people advocating to win now. The flames organization is very cognizant of what the fan mentality is even if it doesn't seam like it sometimes..

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

However, it is an assumption. You are right - if this is indeed true, this is the only legitimate 'proof' I can think of that shows owners (or KK) are meddling. Everything else I heard is basically hearsay it seems.

How proof are you looking for? This is the classic rebuttal to all the smoke around the matter, but I just don't see what you're looking for. A smoking gun? The Sun, Herald, TSN, Sportsnet, CBC, Globe & Mail, etc., etc. have all run some form of these rumors on air/in print in the past year. Are they all just printing BS with absolutely nothing to gain from it?

I mean, Keenan tells it like I see it and you turn it into Sutter lying to Keenan to cover his ass - what proof is there to that statement? You're doing the exact same thing you criticize the media for doing (hearsay) except have no inside information to base it on.

We all talk openly about how Feaster left Tampa because the owners were too involved. Is there any proof of that? There never is with meddling owners. Short of bugging Feaster's phone or hacking into an email account I don't know what type of evidence there could be.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

However, it is an assumption. You are right - if this is indeed true, this is the only legitimate 'proof' I can think of that shows owners (or KK) are meddling. Everything else I heard is basically hearsay it seems.

The Keenan interview is hearsay. Most of the rest of the evidence is circumstantial. Be careful with your terminology.

The most glaring circumstantial evidence in my mind is Feaster's explosion after the loss to (I think) the Oilers, where he uttered the famous "fool me once" words then utterly failed to follow up on his bluster.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

The Keenan interview is hearsay. Most of the rest of the evidence is circumstantial. Be careful with your terminology.

The most glaring circumstantial evidence in my mind is Feaster's explosion after the loss to (I think) the Oilers, where he uttered the famous "fool me once" words then utterly failed to follow up on his bluster.

That's where I turned on Feaster too. I totally bought into that rant. Then.. Nothing.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That's where I turned on Feaster too. I totally bought into that rant. Then.. Nothing.

Why would you turn on him for that rant? It's pretty obvious that he likely had a talking to by King or ownership after making those remarks and I can't fault a man for putting his gun back in his holster and following orders from his employer.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why would you turn on him for that rant? It's pretty obvious that he likely had a talking to by King or ownership after making those remarks and I can't fault a man for putting his gun back in his holster and following orders from his employer.

Then he should have kept his mouth shut in the first place.

[dammage79]

In regards to Feaster I am not impressed with the fact he has not given the coach a roster that is clear on how to deploy. Two centers, 6 LW, 3 RW and 8 D. Cannot imagine a more scrambled roster to try and work with. Pretty sure the Majority of teams deploy a more traditional roster closer to 4 C, 4 LW and 4 RW along with 7 D.

If I am not mistaken it is the GM's job to give the coach a roster that is easiest to deploy for the greatest effect. Granted he was left with a boat load of NTC's/NMC's and then shot himself in the foot some more by adding two more to replace the ones he got rid of. then cramping the contract slots while scrambling to address the back up goalie situation.

I guess if I was giving a mid season report on Feasters handling of the team so far, I would have to give him a D+. And I am a feaster supporter. But this team is a mess right now and hopefully can get sorted out quickly.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Then he should have kept his mouth shut in the first place.

Well like any boss frustrated with his employees he likely hit his boiling point and while you would prefer that he be a little less candid, he said what he felt and I believe would have likely backed up his talk if allowed to. That said I'm not his biggest fan as he's made some good moves, some bad moves and it's looking like his first coach hire may be a mistake.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Then he should have kept his mouth shut in the first place.

Looks like he's had it forcibly shut again.

We haven't heard peep from him or King since the O'Reilly fiasco.

Maybe we should stick his mug on some milk cartons.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Looks like he's had it forcibly shut again.

We haven't heard peep from him or King since the O'Reilly fiasco.

Maybe we should stick his mug on some milk cartons.

If that's the case, good. Should have happened sooner.