[News] Baertschi assigned to Abbotsford. Backlund activated off IR

[Henry Fool]

I've followed Granlund in Minnesota a bit, and his situation isn't that different. They're two prospects that were ranked pretty close to each other before the season and thought to be possible Calder candidates.

Granlund started the season on the second line and scored a handful of points but he's mostly been either on the fourth line or scratched. The discussion with him is whether or not he'd be better off in the AHL even though he has nothing to prove there. Earlier Yeo said that so long as they see progress, they don't necessarily feel the need to send him back to minors, but now that they've found a lineup with some life, they might. Fact is that Konopka plays a stronger fourth-line game than Mikael.

Obviously that's not a situation in which he's able to show off his strengths, but I don't see it as a tragic mistake either. Some players need more time or don't have the correct spot in the lineup open. Some rookies get put in situations where they're sheltered or otherwise carried so that they can show off their stuff right away despite their weaknesses, others have to work harder to prove themselves, and in the long run that might make them better players.

Whenever there's a star rookie, there's always also a set of fortuitous circumstances. A few seasons from now, some of the hot rookies will look ordinary or reveal obvious weaknesses and some who struggle now will be carrying their teams - and maybe even in part because they were coddled less than some others.

The only comment Granlund gives is that he needs to work hard and the only thing Yeo says is that he's going to be a great player for them eventually. I think that's the situation with Bärtschi as well. There's no need for him to get depressed and the rest of us just have to be patient. With these players, the talent will not disappear. You won't turn them into grinders.

[vilzeh]

I get you Henry Fool and all, but what I hate about the Granlund situation is that Yeo totally misplays him, he's trying to make him a Mikko Koivu #2, and everyone knows that's never going to happen..

[Phanuthier]

Not that I agree, but thanks for the perspective Henry.... there are ways that situations play out in my head versus how it plays out in real life, nice to see how someone else does it and get some perspective.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I get you Henry Fool and all, but what I hate about the Granlund situation is that Yeo totally misplays him, he's trying to make him a Mikko Koivu #2, and everyone knows that's never going to happen..

They're a team that's under pressure to make a playoff run after their off-season signings, and their lineup has been in constant flux for most of the season. In a situation like that, I can understand how a small skilled rookie center can't quite convince the coach. I think maybe if they find some consistency, they'll be able to give Granlund a real chance again, but when things are chaotic, it's easy to lean more on the veterans like Cullen.

I think Yeo understands very well what kind of game Granlund plays. It just doesn't follow that he can trust Mikael to be able to do that right now. He plays a complex game, he needs to control the game with the puck, he's not an up-and-down winger who can just jump in and do his thing like always. Yeo has given a lot of responsibility to other rookies as well, so he's not afraid to use young players if they fit.

Bouchard has been scratched even more than Granlund, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they are somewhat similar players.

There's a grain of truth in what you say in the sense that I think Granlund has been trying so hard to prove that he can handle the other aspects of the game that he hasn't really played his game at all. The coach plays a part in that. It's a tough situation because he's probably so scared of making mistakes that he essentially ends up playing a game that others can play better than him. But that's nothing new. Lots of new players are on a short leash and feel that if they commit a couple of mistakes they're right out of the lineup. It's only a problem if it continues indefinitely.

Again, this is similar to Bärtschi in that they both play for teams that are struggling for a playoff spot (or at least think they do). On a team that's implicitly understood to be awful, the rookies have more freedom, and on really solid teams, the rookies are sheltered by the rest of the lineup. Expecting Granlund to center the second line right away was pretty optimistic. That's a tough spot on a team like that.

Enough OT. With the Flames, a part of the issue is that they think they're good enough to make the playoffs. So when things don't work right away, the coaches scramble to find the fix because they think that they're just not getting enough out of their lineup. Rookies tend to be the first to go. What they actually have is indívidual players who are more or less performing as expected but just don't form a good team.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Not that I agree, but thanks for the perspective Henry.... there are ways that situations play out in my head versus how it plays out in real life, nice to see how someone else does it and get some perspective.

Granlund averages nearly a minute and a half more pp time per game, btw.

[vilzeh]

I kind of hate you, you put the thoughts into words so well. Well said. :P

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

They're a team that's under pressure to make a playoff run after their off-season signings, and their lineup has been in constant flux for most of the season. In a situation like that, I can understand how a small skilled rookie center can't quite convince the coach. I think maybe if they find some consistency, they'll be able to give Granlund a real chance again, but when things are chaotic, it's easy to lean more on the veterans like Cullen.

I think Yeo understands very well what kind of game Granlund plays. It just doesn't follow that he can trust Mikael to be able to do that right now. He plays a complex game, he needs to control the game with the puck, he's not an up-and-down winger who can just jump in and do his thing like always. Yeo has given a lot of responsibility to other rookies as well, so he's not afraid to use young players if they fit.

Bouchard has been scratched even more than Granlund, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they are somewhat similar players.

There's a grain of truth in what you say in the sense that I think Granlund has been trying so hard to prove that he can handle the other aspects of the game that he hasn't really played his game at all. The coach plays a part in that. It's a tough situation because he's probably so scared of making mistakes that he essentially ends up playing a game that others can play better than him. But that's nothing new. Lots of new players are on a short leash and feel that if they commit a couple of mistakes they're right out of the lineup. It's only a problem if it continues indefinitely.

Again, this is similar to Bärtschi in that they both play for teams that are struggling for a playoff spot (or at least think they do). On a team that's implicitly understood to be awful, the rookies have more freedom, and on really solid teams, the rookies are sheltered by the rest of the lineup. Expecting Granlund to center the second line right away was pretty optimistic. That's a tough spot on a team like that.

Enough OT. With the Flames, a part of the issue is that they think they're good enough to make the playoffs. So when things don't work right away, the coaches scramble to find the fix because they think that they're just not getting enough out of their lineup. Rookies tend to be the first to go. What they actually have is indívidual players who are more or less performing as expected but just don't form a good team.

Iginla for Granlund

[Wronskian]

I believe that if Sven isn't recalled this year again that he will technically remain a rookie eligible for the Calder next season.

That said I'd imagine that he's back this year.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Granlund averages nearly a minute and a half more pp time per game, btw.

Minnesota doesn't have Calgary's scoring depth. Not even close actually, because the Flames are essentially a team built out of secondary scorers. I don't know if average ice time is a great indicator in these cases anyway.

But they are remarkably willing to do use their rookies, and we don't really know if the Flames would do the same if they had as much prospect depth. I suspect they wouldn't. They have Coyle on the first line, Zucker on the second (or is it third?), Brodin on the first pair with Suter, their backup goalie is a young rookie.

I don't know if the Flames would go that far if they had the same rookies. Zucker is pretty similar to Bärtschi and it's likely that he'd be in his place. But again the lineups are so different. Suppose the Flames had a couple of centers instead of all the wingers - Bärtschi might slot nicely in the lineup like Zucker in Minnesota.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Minnesota doesn't have Calgary's scoring depth. Not even close actually, because the Flames are essentially a team built out of secondary scorers. I don't know if average ice time is a great indicator in these cases anyway.

But they are remarkably willing to do use their rookies, and we don't really know if the Flames would do the same if they had as much prospect depth. I suspect they wouldn't. They have Coyle on the first line, Zucker on the second (or is it third?), Brodin on the first pair with Suter, their backup goalie is a young rookie.

I don't know if the Flames would go that far if they had the same rookies. Zucker is pretty similar to Bärtschi and it's likely that he'd be in his place. But again the lineups are so different. Suppose the Flames had a couple of centers instead of all the wingers - Bärtschi might slot nicely in the lineup like Zucker in Minnesota.

This is what I see. Despite pressure to make noise and get to the playoffs, they are also willing to play and develop their younger players by putting them n positions to be successful even if sometimes their aren't.

[flames_fan_down_under]

There are examples all over the NHL with players who had to spend more time in the AHL and are currently finding a lot of success in the NHL. Heck Nazim Kadri is a perfect example of a guy spending more time in minors to polish his game. Brad Marchand, Claude Giroux had a disappointing training camp when he was drafted and played 33 games in the AHL. Joe Thornton got 7 points in his first 55 NHL games. Things take time, certain players require different approaches and adapt at different paces.

I think Sven will be amazing for the Flames he just needs to work on some things.

[MissTeeks]

Looks like Minny sent Granlund down today:

Minnesota Wild‏@mnwild
#mnwild has reassigned Mikael Granlund to @houston_aeros. Read more here: http://ow.ly/iOzRT

[SuperMatt18]

Baertschi for Granlund

[Husky]

Too much pressure on young players to be impact players early on in their careers.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Husky

Too much pressure on young players to be impact players early on in their careers.

I think the problem is these young guys get pressured to perform in a limited role. If you gave Sven the same icetime and PP minutes as Glencross, whos to say he wouldnt have more success? Backlund is showing how good he could be because he's getting utilized more. Players are constantly evolving yet some coaches still have the same mindset: Play the veterans more.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I think the problem is these young guys get pressured to perform in a limited role. If you gave Sven the same icetime and PP minutes as Glencross, whos to say he wouldnt have more success? Backlund is showing how good he could be because he's getting utilized more. Players are constantly evolving yet some coaches still have the same mindset: Play the veterans more.

This.

All of the vets have had some atrocious games this season, yet not once has any of them ever been in danger of being benched or playing on the 4th line. Not once.

Baertschi was on the shortest leash imaginable and was not in any way put in a position to succeed like the vets have.

[vilzeh]

Also I hate the bullcrap every team says to the media before the season (about the prospects): "We will give them a legit chance and give them time to evolve". That's just bull####, because they know what they wanted from the players when they drafted, but once they play them they are being misplayed all the time. I know they are making them 2 way players and such, but that's not gonna built your confidence if you're a playmaker and you're expected to do points. For example Granlund, he has probably played the same style for 15 years, that's given his success, that's why he's in NHL, but once he gets to the NHL, he needs to change his style. I don't get it.

[Meelapo]

Just to add to all the OT remarks regarding Granlund and Bärtschi...The Abbotsford Heat play the Houston Aeros on Thursday.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

Also I hate the bullcrap every team says to the media before the season (about the prospects): "We will give them a legit chance and give them time to evolve". That's just bull####, because they know what they wanted from the players when they drafted, but once they play them they are being misplayed all the time. I know they are making them 2 way players and such, but that's not gonna built your confidence if you're a playmaker and you're expected to do points. For example Granlund, he has probably played the same style for 15 years, that's given his success, that's why he's in NHL, but once he gets to the NHL, he needs to change his style. I don't get it.

Detroit sent Tatar down and Red Wings fans are far from impressed too.