[NEWS] Update on Iginlas contract (but it is Francis)

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

2 seasons would be very optimistic in my opinion.

There are 2 important aspects to rebuilding successfully:

1. Drafting and player development (and let's be honest, top 3-5 picks help a lot in most cases).
2. Supplementing the team with appropriate free agents (and being able to keep developed players past free agency).

If a team can't capitalize on both points, they are doomed to a long rebuild or a series of unsuccessful rebuilds.

For point 1, look no further than the Blue Jackets who drafted terribly and had trouble building anything because of it. How much confidence to we have in the Flames for this? Personally, I think this could be a problem. Granted, Feaster's drafts are still an unknown at this point, but overall, we have been one of the worst teams when it comes to developing our own high end talent.

For point 2, you can look at the Dollar Bill era for Chicago or the current Oilers. I think the Flames are going to be so-so in this area. The owners are willing to spend (and overpay) to bring in talent, but don't underestimate the power having a player like Iginla gives to luring players. Let's be honest, I have nothing against Calgary as a city but it's not the top destination. Iginla has been very vocal about loving Calgary and when a player with his ability chooses to stay, it helps the image a great deal. I don't think having Glencross or Stajan calling up free agents to sell them on the city is going to have the same effect.

Iginla was the best thing to happen to the Flames this generation for more than just his playing abilities. I don't think people are going to realize this until it's too late.

couldnt agree with you more. The only thing Flames have done properly is the signing of wideman and hudler. Even though i would have liked a cheaper contract. other than that i think if the flames rebuild our management and more importantly ownership would put us in a 10 year drought

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by browna

Two things:
Sundin put the screws to TO because TO in that offseason, floated out rumors he may be hurt, which drove his market value down. He ended up signing in TO for one year.

So when it came down to the club asking for a favour when the Leafs were again out of it later that year, he refused.

Second, and this is an honest question, has Iginla ever previously negotiated a new contract halfway through a season?

A lot of players don't want the distraction of that, and given his situation and his 17 years with the club and him being the top player and the understanding between him and management, there is no fomal rush to have it done for any particular reason during the season, outside of optics.

Francis asked a question, Meehan gave an answer, everything else is reading between the lines as to reasoning why there hasn't been negotiations.

This. Iginla has never neg a contract during the season. Also, at the beginning of the season, both sides said they wouldn't talk about it during the season and it won't be until after the season before they talk. There really is no news here. (though I'm still reading through to see if there is any update)

Don Meehan has always been a shark though... probably floating the idea out in case his client (Iginla) wants to move on, and start ramping up some interest for his client.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

This. Iginla has never neg a contract during the season. Also, at the beginning of the season, both sides said they wouldn't talk about it during the season and it won't be until after the season before they talk. There really is no news here. (though I'm still reading through to see if there is any update)

Don Meehan has always been a shark though... probably floating the idea out in case his client (Iginla) wants to move on, and start ramping up some interest for his client.

well i would be open to hating iginla if he decides to not negotiate during the season, and screw the flames over by not signing when he is a UFA. Im sure he has some sort of class to at least tell the ownership his direction

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by browna

Staying here isn't being "ok with losing".

I just don't think he's wired for that type of requirement of a Stanley Cup, by any means possible, to validate his career.

He's talked about the respect he had for Sakic and Yzerman staying with the same team thier whole career, I assume Doan will be part of that conversation too. Sure, it helps that Yzerman and Sakic both won multiple cups, but Yzerman wasn't far from being a Senator in the mid 90's, and Sakic did sign an offer sheet with the Rags, but both never came to fruiation, just like Iginla to Buffalo for Peca never happened either in 2001-ish. And Iginla got as razor thin close as you could for getting his Cup.

Plus, there's no guarantee that he wins a cup if he goes anywhere else anyways, and I think that is as big of a deterrent for him then anything; him having seen this happen before with other players, going through the drama of leaving your only NHL team, all for not getting that Cup, and having not only having disappointment for your rented team not winning, but the fact that you went through all the hoops of leaving your old city, which you really didn't want to, for nothing. Even winning a Cup (although in playoffs wars, you become part of a close knit team for those 2 months), its not "your" team which cheapens the experience is some way, or can for some.

Just my opinion, and I can see why he'd want to leave given the state of the franchise right now. The possibility of trading him now to get some pieces, sign back here in the summer (ala Doug Weight was planning to do all along when he got moved at the deadline) also exists, but not sure if he wants to put the Flames or the other organization through that charade if his heart really is here.

I really don't think, IMO, he's hell bent on getting a Stanley Cup somehow some way if it means moving to a new city and playing as a hired rental player for 3 months.

Great post that may have gone un-noticed (in this non-news news thread Francis/Meehan created)

I'm starting to swing the fences here and keep Iginla... for Iginla, whats the diff between winning a cup and playing game 7 in the SCF? Will being traded to Boston and winning a cup there verify his HOF career? Part of a SC is the journey, not just been rented out for a win (see: Ray Bourque)... that part I can respect. Who knows, maybe in 3 years, things can change (but we need to rebuild THIS YEAR... move Cammalleri, Bouw, etc)...

I bet thats the mindset both sides go... a successful hockey career isn't just a medal you get, but the journey you go through.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not sure I agree. For the simple reason that this is a sellers market. I seriously doubt the Ducks trade Perry. Iginla may be the only legitimate top 6 forward available.

Pittsburgh, for example, has nearly half a dozen high end defensive prospects. Giving up Morrow/Pouliot and a 1st for Iginla doesn't hurt them at all today and probably doesn't hurt them much in the future.

Sorry you are in a dream world. Pittsburg will not trade either prospect for Iginla. The 1st rounder sure, but a tier 1 prospect will not be coming back, bottom line.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

This. Iginla has never neg a contract during the season. Also, at the beginning of the season, both sides said they wouldn't talk about it during the season and it won't be until after the season before they talk. There really is no news here. (though I'm still reading through to see if there is any update)

Don Meehan has always been a shark though... probably floating the idea out in case his client (Iginla) wants to move on, and start ramping up some interest for his client.

No, this is incorrect.

Feaster said he expected negotiations to start at some point and that they'd figure out a deal if there's one to be made. At no stage did they say they wouldn't negotiate during the season - they simply said they would not comment on negotiations to the media.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Nasty

well i would be open to hating iginla if he decides to not negotiate during the season, and screw the flames over by not signing when he is a UFA. Im sure he has some sort of class to at least tell the ownership his direction

Honestly, mid-way through the season, there are a crazy amount of emotions, and I bet the reason why Iginla doesn't neg during the season is because he is simply too close to the situation. Off-season, he can sit back and re-eval. He won't get a chance to do that at any point during the season. Putting the screw to Iginla to make a decision mid-season would be Toronto-esque.

[Nasty]

oops my bad, thanks comixZone

[North East Goon]

I see very little positives for Jarome to become a rental personally. When
free agency opens up, that is when a whole bunch of positives will be thrown on his table.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There are 2 important aspects to rebuilding successfully

When you get right down to it there is only 1 important aspect to rebuilding successfully... restocking your team with players whose skill value exceeds their monetary value. Right now the Flames are not getting surplus skill value for money.

[Stay Golden]

Francis has been running condensed versions of this same article for 5 years running.
Maybe Iggy will say to hell with it trade me so i can get rid of these same old same old scrubs in the Calgary media.
At least he would face new story lines wherever he ends up.

If Iginla gives the nod to get traded and then after all these crap talk who can we get, yadda yadda.
We end up seeing what crap the Flames settle for and then get even more depressed as a fan-base when we look at the altered future roster and say this sucks even more than it did.
I have no faith ZERO that the Flames management will not get fleeced yet again in a big trade it will be a disaster.
Seriously when was the last big trade the Sutter/Feaster, KKing, Edwards brain trust hit a home run with. They stink.

[Flash Walken]

Iginla isn't going to be traded, he'll walk away at the end of the season and it will take 6 months and I won't care anymore.

So it is written, so it shall come to pass.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

I see very little positives for Jarome to become a rental personally. When
free agency opens up, that is when a whole bunch of positives will be thrown on his table.

So potentially winning the Stanley Cup with the Bruins or Penguins this spring wouldn't be considered a positive? He's running out of years and chances to win and not going for it this season leave him one less chance and possibly only two or three more chances. That's a career goal there having his name engraved on the cup and the biggest positive, bigger than money.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So potentially winning the Stanley Cup with the Bruins or Penguins this spring wouldn't be considered a positive? He's running out of years and chances to win and not going for it this season leave him one less chance and possibly only two or three more chances. That's a career goal there having his name engraved on the cup and the biggest positive, bigger than money.

Even if he doesn't win the cup, going to an Eastern team (where I don't think Iginla gets quite the respect he deserves) and proving that he can still be an impact player in the playoffs will do tons to improve Iginla's prospects if he goes UFA at the end of this season.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So potentially winning the Stanley Cup with the Bruins or Penguins this spring wouldn't be considered a positive? He's running out of years and chances to win and not going for it this season leave him one less chance and possibly only two or three more chances. That's a career goal there having his name engraved on the cup and the biggest positive, bigger than money.

dont worry one quick retool and we will be a contender next year

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Nasty

dont worry one quick retool and we will be a contender next year

If only they could get Jokinen from Florida. He's the #1 center that the Flames have always needed.

[CaptainYooh]

A also don't believe we will see Iginla traded this season (or any season). Based on how strong Flames are financially as an organization at present, I believe they can meet all of Iginla's financial expectations that are in line with what the market (other teams) can offer. Unfortunately, barring the big miracle, they cannot offer him a reasonable shot at winning the Cup within his remaining career horizon. Hence; he would leave only if
a) the real chance of winning SC is more important to him than personal/family discomfort and other nuisances of dealing with public perceptions of his leaving, or
b) if the organization doesn't want him to stay here and wish to spend their money on someone else.
I personally consider option b) unrealistic. All indications from the head office to-date have been that they want him to retire here (unless the recent Francis media "breakout" affair has been staged to get a feel of the public opinion regarding a mere potential of trading Iginla now). So, it's option a) only, I think.

[Badger Bob]

Why is the media and the organization dangling that carrot of "vying for the post-season." We've been through this same situation for years, and went through it during the late 90's. It always results in a "push" that comes up short of that last spot, but too far back in the draft order to qualify for a plumb prospect in the draft lottery.

Over the last several years, with the exception of the '04 run, they either don't make it at all or lose in the first round. Face facts now. This team is not built to do damage, even if they just squeak into The Show. Would you really want to face the possibility of getting swept by the Blackhawks, just to host a couple of home playoff games?

Those indications from Iginla's agent look like practical terms. He's experienced everything else, but the ultimate. Who could blame him for wanting to get out of this type of environment? He was there when Fleury went through the same thing. Not sure how many top contenders have the cap space & assets, but it's past time to stop pretending that the Flames are "a center away" from taking it to the next level.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

2 seasons would be very optimistic in my opinion.

There are 2 important aspects to rebuilding successfully:

1. Drafting and player development (and let's be honest, top 3-5 picks help a lot in most cases).
2. Supplementing the team with appropriate free agents (and being able to keep developed players past free agency).

If a team can't capitalize on both points, they are doomed to a long rebuild or a series of unsuccessful rebuilds.

For point 1, look no further than the Blue Jackets who drafted terribly and had trouble building anything because of it. How much confidence to we have in the Flames for this? Personally, I think this could be a problem. Granted, Feaster's drafts are still an unknown at this point, but overall, we have been one of the worst teams when it comes to developing our own high end talent.

For point 2, you can look at the Dollar Bill era for Chicago or the current Oilers. I think the Flames are going to be so-so in this area. The owners are willing to spend (and overpay) to bring in talent, but don't underestimate the power having a player like Iginla gives to luring players. Let's be honest, I have nothing against Calgary as a city but it's not the top destination. Iginla has been very vocal about loving Calgary and when a player with his ability chooses to stay, it helps the image a great deal. I don't think having Glencross or Stajan calling up free agents to sell them on the city is going to have the same effect.

Iginla was the best thing to happen to the Flames this generation for more than just his playing abilities. I don't think people are going to realize this until it's too late.

Yes, a 2 - or even a 3 - year rebuild is a pipedream. Not going to happen.

The purpose of a rebuild is to acquire a new core. That means 5 or 6 key players.

So far the Flames might have one of them. Baertschi, if he becomes that player (I think he will), will not be a dominant player in the NHL for at least 3 years. Best case scenario.

Next best case scenario is that they slip down into the lottery and get a MacKinnon/Barkov and finally acquire that #1 C. Even if so, these guys are, at best, 3 years away from being dominant int he NHL.

So we are up to (in a best case scenario) 2 players that can be important parts of the core in 3 years.

Any other players acquired either through trading Iginla/Bouwmeester/whoever are going to be behind those two in development.

And any draft picks other than one of the lottery studs mentioned above, is more than 3 years away from being dominant (if they ever get there at all).

Remembering that you need 5 or 6 key players, and keeping in mind that not all of the youth acquired will blossom as desired, and also admitting that we have very, very little with which to work at the moment (Jankowski and Gaudreau are both more than 3 years from being dominant NHLers - if they ever are), and there is simply no rational way you can conclude that we can do a 3 year rebuild.

We are talking 5 years minimum.

So let's get started.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by blankall

If they announced that the team was rebuilding and Iginla was being traded, people would buy less tickets.

The Flames not moving in a new direction is actually keeping me from buying tickets. I've just grown apathetic... I haven't been to a game in over a year, and I'm not really missing it. Even if they would lose more than they win for a few years, watching young kids with passion and energy, and the knowledge we may have some sort of future, would make me care more. Until then, following them on cable TV/radio is about as much as I can spend on the Flames.