Jay Bouwmeester Appreciation Thread

[nik-]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Numbers are a pretty bad way to quantify Bouwmeester's effectiveness with the Flames. They look terrible for sure.

Overall yeah, the most important to me is taking the goal against per 60 minutes played and comparing it to his teammates. When you do this, it's not good. The only player significantly worse last year was Hannan, Butler was a little worse in this regard as well.

Our top guy should be the best in that if he's not providing offense imo.

[dissentowner]

This thread just boggles my mind. It would be like Cleveland Browns fans making a Colt McCoy appreciation thread.

[Reanimate]

I should preface that by saying I think he didn't have a great season. He was good, but not great. But still the best Dman on the team, edging out Giordano after he returned from injury later in the season.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Reanimate

I guess thats the difference then. Because in my personal viewings I see him as a very good defenseman.

Yeah, have you watched hockey for long? Do you ever watch teams play that aren't the Flames?

I have missed two Flames games over the last three seasons, perhaps he looked "very good" in those games I missed because I really can't comment on them.

I do acknowledge he has had "steady" games over the last three seasons, but he certainly hasn't had any stand out games where he lead the team to victory.

When you are paying somebody that much money and he plays half the game you would think he could be counted on to be a difference maker in at least a couple games over 246 total.

Maybe it's just me that thinks that way, but I severely doubt it.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

If the numbers look terrible and my eyes are telling me he doesn't look effective most of the time when I'm watching him and he makes the most money on my team other than the captain and my team hasn't made the playoffs since he donned a Flames jersey how do I quantify his time with my team?

I think I outlined it previously. You quantify it with a player comparison.

For example, if you quantified Kipper's stats simply as a numbers game comparison to other goalies, he's not a top 5 goalie in this league. However, I would have serious trouble naming 5 goalies I'd rather have over him.

Same with Bouwmeester. The argument is if he's a top 2 dman. If he's not, it should be easy to name 60 dmen - salary aside - who you'd rather have on this team. I can't name 60 dmen to push him out of that list so in my mind he's a top pairing dman.

So maybe you'd like to look things only on a numbers perspective... which is fine. Numbers can be cold, hard truths. I just prefer to look at things a little wider and look at numbers (not great), what I see with my own eyes at a game (he's ok, sort of misused), and also comparing to other players as an overall depth chart (can't name 60 other dmen better than him = top pairing dman).

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

I think I outlined it previously. You quantify it with a player comparison.

For example, if you quantified Kipper's stats simply as a numbers game comparison to other goalies, he's not a top 5 goalie in this league. However, I would have serious trouble naming 5 goalies I'd rather have over him.

Same with Bouwmeester. The argument is if he's a top 2 dman. If he's not, it should be easy to name 60 dmen - salary aside - who you'd rather have on this team. I can't name 60 dmen to push him out of that list so in my mind he's a top pairing dman.

So maybe you'd like to look things only on a numbers perspective... which is fine. Numbers can be cold, hard truths. I just prefer to look at things a little wider and look at numbers (not great), what I see with my own eyes at a game (he's ok, sort of misused), and also comparing to other players as an overall depth chart (can't name 60 other dmen better than him = top pairing dman).

I don't think it works that way. I'm not saying there are 60 better defensemen in the league, but to be able to confidently say that there is or there isn't, wouldn't you have to have seen a fair bit of hockey played by every team in the NHL?

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Ark2

I don't think it works that way. I'm not saying there are 60 better defensemen in the league, but to be able to confidently say that there is or there isn't, wouldn't you have to have seen a fair bit of hockey played by every team in the NHL?

Since Bouwmeester has been with the Flames I've watched pretty close to every home game live very closely. So you're right, you'd probably need to watch more hockey than that to make an exact judgement call.

Even if you don't, there's a list of 30 dmen you could probably say is better without too close of a look (i.e. Shea Weber is better than Jay Bouwmeester). It gets a little fuzzy for me at the 50 mark (i.e. when was the last time I saw Mark Streit play on the same ice as Bouwmeester?).

So for me, at that mark he's a top pairing dman. But a bad top pairing dman. I'm not saying it's science or anything... just a suggestion on how to look at it in addition to looking at the stat sheet.

[StrykerSteve]

Let's hope Hartley emphasizes these attributes under his new offense-oriented system, combined with the addition of some nice talent, perhaps we see a return to all-star form for JBo in 2012/2013!

Time to bump an old thread, hoping we can see more positivity than when I first created it.

Hartley has indeed removed the shackles, and we're finally seeing the real Jbo!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Time to bump an old thread, hoping we can see more positivity than when I first created it.

Go Jbo!

Does not even remotely resemble the player he was when you originally posted this. Good on him to turn it around.

[Sakari]

Lovin' J-Bo this year. Everything this organization needs in a defenseman, besides physicality. We need Gio to up the hitting game.. they'd be a great 1st pairing if he can do that.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Does not even remotely resemble the player he was when you originally posted this. Good on him to turn it around.

Just when you think that you gotta grip, the bearded lady comes and does a double back flip.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Sakari

Lovin' J-Bo this year. Everything this organization needs in a defenseman, besides physicality. We need Gio to up the hitting game.. they'd be a great 1st pairing if he can do that.

As you can see (and I am ultimately surprised by) JBo has lots of hits. I was amazed at his hit numbers. 200 since coming to the Flames? Unthinkable yet true!!!!

[1_Flames_Fan]

Bouwmeester = good
Gio = bad

[Brick]

I doubt if JBo goes anywhere this season.

They may trade him or his rights next season if he doesn't plan to re-sign with the Flames.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

As you can see (and I am ultimately surprised by) JBo has lots of hits. I was amazed at his hit numbers. 200 since coming to the Flames? Unthinkable yet true!!!!

Lol not sure if you're serious but those hit stats are terrible.

[Huntingwhale]

Just by looking at his shot totals, you can see the chains really have been let off.

Stupid Sutter.

[BruceCody]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Bouwmeester = good
Gio = bad

Gio + Bouwmeester = bad

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Since Bouwmeester has been with the Flames I've watched pretty close to every home game live very closely. So you're right, you'd probably need to watch more hockey than that to make an exact judgement call.

Even if you don't, there's a list of 30 dmen you could probably say is better without too close of a look (i.e. Shea Weber is better than Jay Bouwmeester). It gets a little fuzzy for me at the 50 mark (i.e. when was the last time I saw Mark Streit play on the same ice as Bouwmeester?).

So for me, at that mark he's a top pairing dman. But a bad top pairing dman. I'm not saying it's science or anything... just a suggestion on how to look at it in addition to looking at the stat sheet.

I disagree completely.

He's top 30, for sure.

I'd like to see a list of 40-49 D-men you deem better than Bouwmeester, because I sincerely doubt you can honestly fill it out.

[Murph]

Bouwmeester is tied for 21st in league scoring among defensemen with games in hand on many of the guys ahead of him.

In terms of points per game average, he is tied with Keith Yandle.

Don't look now, but Jay might just be worth his $6.68M salary.

[edn88]

Originally Posted by Murph

Don't look now, but Jay might just be worth his $6.68M salary.

Great - we should totally trade him for draft picks and some prospect that may never work out