Kiprusoff may have more value than ever

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Your top ten might not be better than RoR but you get several of them over the course of a few years if you allow the team to naturally devolve down to its real talent level, perhaps a top 5 this year, maybe a top 3 next year and a top 10 the year after, and that is assuming that you don't sell off your assets and maximise your picks.

On top of that those picks are all on cheap contracts with 7 year RFA status where as RoR is expensive and will possibly walk in 3 years.

It is really important to realise that in a contracting cap league the talent of the player is only part of the equation.

See Edmonton for success.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

See Edmonton for success.

That arguement equally applies to Calgary and its 'model' whatever the hell it is!

[moon]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

See Edmonton for success.

See Calgary for success.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

See Edmonton for success.

Actually a better question is, given a good GM which team is in a better situation to be turned into a contendor quickly.

[Vinny01]

See Ottawa for success,

Sell some players at the deadline, don't sell the farm, draft/develop smart, add assets and make solid trades. Ottawa is a deep organization that didn't move Spezza, Alfie, or Phillips.

They traded Kelly, Fisher and that is about it. They hit a couple homeruns in trading for Turris, Anderson and drafting Karlsson. They have a fairly deep team now and moving forward. They didn't blow it up but made some good trades and hit some homeruns when they had a decent pick.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't look at Calgary being in a 'win now' mindset. They are in 'stay competitive' mode. I guess if you just look at things either black or white, you would counter that this is just semantics. In my opinion, teams in 'win now' mode generally load up on veterans and sending out futures. This is not what the Flames have been doing for the last couple of years really - outside of the Cammy deal that was a bit more complex.

I personally didn't want the offer sheet to go through on RoR, just because I think the Flames can potentially draft a better player this year for the future, but it definitely didn't scream 'win now' at all. It would if RoR was 32 instead of 22. There is no denying that RoR would have really helped this team in the short AND long term - these are the moves that Feaster has been making.

As for the topic at hand in regards to Kipper, the returns are really tough to project. If the Flames keep 100% of his salary, then it will off-set the cap hit to a contender, making him a further attractive piece to a team like Pittsburgh. I highly doubt Pittsburgh is in the market for a goalie, however. Tampa and Carolina could both be good destinations for him.

As a side note, I would prefer that Kipper get moved to a true contender this year. The guy has been a total workhorse and a big part of this team for practically a decade. Would be really nice to see him win a cup as well.

[Phanuthier]

For the record, I never used the words "win now" .... don't know why everyone went crazy over it, put quotes on it and said they hate it when people (i.e. me) say that, when I never said it. I said they are "committed to challenging for the playoffs this year" ...

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I haven't lived in Calgary since 1999, has the Sun really changed that much?

Silly Hall!

Nope nothing has changed.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

See Ottawa for success,

Sell some players at the deadline, don't sell the farm, draft/develop smart, add assets and make solid trades. Ottawa is a deep organization that didn't move Spezza, Alfie, or Phillips.

They traded Kelly, Fisher and that is about it. They hit a couple homeruns in trading for Turris, Anderson and drafting Karlsson. They have a fairly deep team now and moving forward. They didn't blow it up but made some good trades and hit some homeruns when they had a decent pick.

I think this is vastly oversimplifies what happened in Ottawa. How did Ottawa get Karlsson for example, well they actually traded up in the first round because y'know they identified the player they wanted and they actually kept their picks to be able to position themselves in the draft. I can't remember the last time Calgary traded up. Because we're so flippant with picks we're usually trading down to recoup a second rounder and shinning up a turd of a first round pick to compensate.

When Ottawa does trade their picks they usually go for young guys with potential. They traded their 1st for David Rundblad. They then traded Rundblad and their 2nd for Turris.

They also amass picks and turn them into better picks. They traded two seconds for Detroit's first in 2011.

When it's clear they wont contend they trade their roster players for picks as well. Fisher went for a 1st and 3rd. Kelly went for a 2nd. Rutuu went for a 6th. Campoli went for a 2nd.

This is as rebuild mode as you can get. The Flames equivalent would be to trade Cammalleri, Stempniak, Begin, Giordano for nothing but picks.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't look at Calgary being in a 'win now' mindset. They are in 'stay uncompetitive' mode. I guess if you just look at things either black or white, you would counter that this is just semantics. In my opinion, teams in 'win now' mode generally load up on veterans and sending out futures. This is not what the Flames have been doing for the last couple of years really - outside of the Cammy deal that was a bit more complex.

I personally didn't want the offer sheet to go through on RoR, just because I think the Flames can potentially draft a better player this year for the future, but it definitely didn't scream 'win now' at all. It would if RoR was 32 instead of 22. There is no denying that RoR would have really helped this team in the short AND long term - these are the moves that Feaster has been making.

As for the topic at hand in regards to Kipper, the returns are really tough to project. If the Flames keep 100% of his salary, then it will off-set the cap hit to a contender, making him a further attractive piece to a team like Pittsburgh. I highly doubt Pittsburgh is in the market for a goalie, however. Tampa and Carolina could both be good destinations for him.

As a side note, I would prefer that Kipper get moved to a true contender this year. The guy has been a total workhorse and a big part of this team for practically a decade. Would be really nice to see him win a cup as well.

I was going to post the usual smart ass FYP on this but it isn't really funny, the Flames management seem intent on keeping the team around 8th to 10th for another 4 or 5 years, it is bizarre to me.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

See Ottawa for success,

Sell some players at the deadline, don't sell the farm, draft/develop smart, add assets and make solid trades. Ottawa is a deep organization that didn't move Spezza, Alfie, or Phillips.

They traded Kelly, Fisher and that is about it. They hit a couple homeruns in trading for Turris, Anderson and drafting Karlsson. They have a fairly deep team now and moving forward. They didn't blow it up but made some good trades and hit some homeruns when they had a decent pick.

Mike Kelly, Fisher, Kovalev, Campolli all were traded at the 2011 deadline and the Senators did very well getting a 1st, (3) 2nds and a 7th round draft picks as well as Anderson from Colorado.

[CaramonLS]

I think it was within the last couple weeks ago, but they mentioned on the radio that Ottawa had 17 drafted players in their lineup one night (After the Spezza and Karlson injuries).

17 out of 20.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I think this is vastly oversimplifies what happened in Ottawa. How did Ottawa get Karlsson for example, well they actually traded up in the first round because y'know they identified the player they wanted and they actually kept their picks to be able to position themselves in the draft. I can't remember the last time Calgary traded up. Because we're so flippant with picks we're usually trading down to recoup a second rounder and shinning up a turd of a first round pick to compensate.

When Ottawa does trade their picks they usually go for young guys with potential. They traded their 1st for David Rundblad. They then traded Rundblad and their 2nd for Turris.

They also amass picks and turn them into better picks. They traded two seconds for Detroit's first in 2011.

When it's clear they wont contend they trade their roster players for picks as well. Fisher went for a 1st and 3rd. Kelly went for a 2nd. Rutuu went for a 6th. Campoli went for a 2nd.

This is as rebuild mode as you can get. The Flames equivalent would be to trade Cammalleri, Stempniak, Begin, Giordano for nothing but picks.

They also kept Alfredsson

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

They also kept Alfredsson

And if they deal him this year at the deadline, which I think is likely, are they still a model franchise?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

They also kept Alfredsson

Partly because he was out with a back injury for 30 games in February.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

And if they deal him this year at the deadline, which I think is likely, are they still a model franchise?

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Partly because he was out with a back injury for 30 games in February.

Of course, I just thought it was important to note they retained their long time captain throughout said full rebuild. Alfredsson might also retire, who knows. His contract was much better value as well.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

They also kept Alfredsson

I guess if you can get Iggy to re-sign here at a less than $5 million per year like Alfredsson did, then I guess it's possible, but I really don't think Iggy will stay. The guy is a competitor and wants to win and with the circus that has been going on in Calgary this year, I see no reason why he would re-sign here next year. If he did, I'd really question his motives for playing.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

See Ottawa for success,

Sell some players at the deadline, don't sell the farm, draft/develop smart, add assets and make solid trades. Ottawa is a deep organization that didn't move Spezza, Alfie, or Phillips.

They traded Kelly, Fisher and that is about it. They hit a couple homeruns in trading for Turris, Anderson and drafting Karlsson. They have a fairly deep team now and moving forward. They didn't blow it up but made some good trades and hit some homeruns when they had a decent pick.

They didn't move Chara or Redden before UFA either, and most would say the return for Heatley wasn't great.

Shows that the key is smart drafting and dvelopment, if you succeed at that you can lose assets for nothing and it won't matter.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Of course, I just thought it was important to note they retained their long time captain throughout said full rebuild. Alfredsson might also retire, who knows. His contract was much better value as well.

Yeah but they couldn't trade him because he was injured so I don't know what your point is. If he wasn't injured then I'd say sure, but I bet that if he was healthy he would have been on the block.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by 868904

I guess if you can get Iggy to re-sign here at a less than $5 million per year like Alfredsson did, then I guess it's possible, but I really don't think Iggy will stay. The guy is a competitor and wants to win and with the circus that has been going on in Calgary this year, I see no reason why he would re-sign here next year. If he did, I'd really question his motives for playing.

Do you guys think Alfie's last contract is fair value for Iginla's next one, if he does decide to sign here?

Damn, I kind of derailed this thread. I would honestly try and trade Kiprusoff AND Iginla if they can. Feaster wasn't correct in saying this team would be 30th without Kipper. Calgary has won some games with patchwork goaltending.